Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
The post I quoted friend.

You accuse some of believing salvation is a product of works.

So I ask again; regarding the elect or actual faithful; do you understand pleasing works in the sight of GOD to be the byproduct of effectual faith or are you going to say that it too is the work of man and not the product of GOD given faith through grace and mercy and the will of GOD.

Thank you

Peace

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The only believing / faith that pleases God is a fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth to all His Elect.

Outside of that none are faithful, for the faith / believing that a carnal man does cannot please God; just works of the flesh.


Rom. 8:7-8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


The natural man doesn't have the ability to please or obey God.
All the works he does are as filthy rags in God's sight Is. 64:6.


Understand that God's Grace was Given exclusively to His Elect, those He Saved, before the world began.

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.


And God's Mercy is exclusively for His Vessels of Mercy, but not for the vessels of wrath He ordained to destruction Rom. 9:22-23.


How's that?

~~~
 
P

popsthebuilder

New member
Nanja said:
The only believing / faith that pleases God is a fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth to all His Elect.

Outside of that none are faithful, for the faith / believing that a carnal man does cannot please God; just works of the flesh.


Rom. 8:7-8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


The natural man doesn't have the ability to please or obey God.
All the works he does are as filthy rags in God's sight Is. 64:6.


Understand that God's Grace was Given exclusively to His Elect, those He Saved, before the world began.

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.


And God's Mercy is exclusively for His Vessels of Mercy, but not for the vessels of wrath He ordained to destruction Rom. 9:22-23.


How's that?

~~~
Click to expand...
So you agree that the elect, through faith, are pleasing to GOD, in their works, which aren't their own, but the working of the holy spirit within their life?

The spiritual man, the one not consumed by the wants of the flesh or the rewards of man, the elect and faithful, do indeed work, as all do, in one direction or another, yet their works, unlike those of the unbeliever and hypocrite, are a product of faith, and as such pleasing to GOD.

So if you agree that the faithful produce works stemming from said faith, then how can you claim that pate or any other for that matter, speak of some false gospel?

Do you know who are and are not the elect and faithful? Are you to know them by their works, or by their lack of works(lack of faith)?



Peace

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R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
We are only pleasing to God if we are "In Christ".

God must see us "In Christ" Paul wrote, "That I might be found in him".

To be "In Christ" means that you have renounced your righteousness and your religion and you are now trusting totally and completely in the work and the person of Jesus Christ.

Salvation is a free gift from God. Nothing is ours until it is received.

"To as many as received him, to them gave he the power to become the Sons of God, even to them that believe upon his name" John 1:12.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
We are only pleasing to God if we are "In Christ".

God must see us "In Christ" Paul wrote, "That I might be found in him".

To be "In Christ" means that you have renounced your righteousness and your religion and you are now trusting totally and completely in the work and the person of Jesus Christ.

Salvation is a free gift from God. Nothing is ours until it is received.

"To as many as received him, to them gave he the power to become the Sons of God, even to them that believe upon his name" John 1:12.
Click to expand...

False teaching them Christ died for are reconciled to God by His death even while being enemies,unbelievers,thats a Gift! Rom 5:10
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
pate

To be "In Christ" means that you have renounced your righteousness and your religion and you are now trusting totally and completely in the work and the person of Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

False teaching ! No scripture says that !
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Still hanging on to that one scripture, are you? You think that Romans 5:10 changes 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.
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You want to reject the scripture ! Those Christ died for are reconciled to by His death alone, even while they are enemies/unbelievers. Thats Grace, thats Justifying the Ungodly for Christ's sake alone !
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
beloved57 said:
You want to reject the scripture ! Those Christ died for are reconciled to by His death alone, even while they are enemies/unbelievers. Thats Grace, thats Justifying the Ungodly for Christ's sake alone !
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God has reconciled the WHOLE WORLD unto himself by Jesus Christ. Sinners and all, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

That's grace!
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
So you agree that the elect, through faith, are pleasing to GOD, in their works, which aren't their own, but the working of the holy spirit within their life?

The spiritual man, the one not consumed by the wants of the flesh or the rewards of man, the elect and faithful, do indeed work, as all do, in one direction or another, yet their works, unlike those of the unbeliever and hypocrite, are a product of faith, and as such pleasing to GOD.

So if you agree that the faithful produce works stemming from said faith, then how can you claim that pate or any other for that matter, speak of some false gospel?

Do you know who are and are not the elect and faithful? Are you to know them by their works, or by their lack of works(lack of faith)?



Peace

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Click to expand...



I'm totally in agreement with the scriptures and comments I posted, which you failed to address point by point:


The only believing / faith that pleases God is a fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth to all His Elect.

Outside of that none are faithful, for the faith / believing that a carnal man does cannot please God; just works of the flesh.


Rom. 8:7-8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


The natural man doesn't have the ability to please or obey God.
All the works he does are as filthy rags in God's sight Is. 64:6.


Understand that God's Grace was Given exclusively to His Elect, those He Saved, before the world began.

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.


And God's Mercy is exclusively for His Vessels of Mercy, but not for the vessels of wrath He ordained to destruction Rom. 9:22-23.
Click to expand...


But I find your comments and interrogative remarks to be doublespeak. So no agreement there.


Remember this: Those who continue to teach a false freewill gospel of works a man does to get himself saved, i.e. believing, repenting, accepting, receiving, etc., in spite of the fact that the scriptures teach that Salvation is not of works Eph. 2:9; Is. 64:6: It's because they are Lost!

The True Gospel of God's Grace by Divine Election Eph. 1:4-11; 2 Tim. 1:9 is hid from them!


2 Cor. 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

~~~
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
beloved57 said:
You teach that reconciled saved sinners wind up lost in their sins, a false gospel.
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The only reconciled sinners that will wind up in hell are those sinners that have refused God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided for EVERYONE by Jesus Christ, Hebrews 2:9.
 
P

popsthebuilder

New member
Nanja said:
I'm totally in agreement with the scriptures and comments I posted, which you failed to address point by point:





But I find your comments and interrogative remarks to be doublespeak. So no agreement there.


Remember this: Those who continue to teach a false freewill gospel of works a man does to get himself saved, i.e. believing, repenting, accepting, receiving, etc., in spite of the fact that the scriptures teach that Salvation is not of works Eph. 2:9; Is. 64:6: It's because they are Lost!

The True Gospel of God's Grace by Divine Election Eph. 1:4-11; 2 Tim. 1:9 is hid from them!


2 Cor. 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

~~~
Click to expand...
You seem really confused.

If you don't think faith is effectual then you are dead wrong. As if faith is simply lip service.

I'm done for now, this is fruitless.

Peace

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beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
The only reconciled sinners that will wind up in hell are those sinners that have refused God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided for EVERYONE by Jesus Christ, Hebrews 2:9.
Click to expand...

That's a lie, them Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies and shall be saved by His life Rom 5;10. The reconciled can never perish. You teach lies.
 
P

popsthebuilder

New member
Isn't reconciliation while in sin a means to an end of sin? How is it that reconciliation isn't the first step in a process? It seems to me that reconciliation to GOD while in sin would lead to faith and that faith would grow if one was reconciled; knowing of GOD and mercy and the Will of GOD as it pertains to the individual.
Why does reconciliation while in sin not eventually lead to justification through GOD if one is truly reconciled? And if it does; then why must this process not be by the Will of GOD alone, in GOD's time, and not at the time or by the will of the weak, yet Faithful?

Yes we are reconciled while in sin...there would be no need for reconciliation if not. But how does that instantly became righteousness or good or even real if it doesn't affect change in the life of the sinner?

Yes the Christ atoned for the sins of all. So how does that lead to the conclusion that the elect and reconciled unto GOD, by that oneness, that atonement of Christ, aren't even changed into a spiritually oriented life, turning from all wants of the flesh(greed/sin)?

Please don't disregard this as heresy or poison. These are sincere questions from a sincere believer.

Peace

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P

popsthebuilder

New member
By the way; to me, from scripture, it is plain as day that the elect are converted and without sin at some point. That point not being after physical death either.

Am I the only one that sees this? If not, then why this whole yay continue in sin and vainly think you are safe(elect)? Someone is missing something.

How do people read the teachings of the Christ against the works of the hypocrites, the warnings against it and greed and pride, and then, not so quietly, be proud, greedy, hypocrites?

Just to be clear; I'm not calling anyone in particular any of those things. I am too a hypocrite.

Peace

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P

popsthebuilder

New member
beloved57 said:
popsthebuilder



Thats false teaching. Some men are under Gods wrath and condemnation Jn 3:18,36 so how are they reconciled to God ?
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I didn't say they were all reconciled. There is a freedom of choice though the sins of all are forgiven through the self sacrifice of the Christ.
One can know of the mercy of GOD and still choose or perhaps vainly think that they can be both elect and full of knowing sin at the same time. But that doesn't make it so.

I just realized something; are you actually suggesting that GOD only saves select sinners though all are sinners, and too, that election doesn't lead to a complete and profound change from sinner to that which actually follows the commands of the Son of GOD?

Is this your message?

Please....tell me I am wrong on both points, and correct me.

Peace

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