Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

[God's Truth]

The parable proves that ALL are called, and that some refuse to come, and some that come can still be thrown out.

Calvinism says that not all are called...that only the elect from before the creation are the called.

According to Calvinism rules, anyone who is not elect can't even hear the call because it is not to them and that they are too depraved anyway.

The parable proves them wrong so then they say things that even go against what their doctrines clearly state.

Why not just believe what you have been proved wrong with?

It is a snare...it is pride,and it is fear...

 

[beloved57]

I trust in everything that Jesus says.

It is never ever wrong to obey Jesus. His words are life. How do you get that those words Jesus speaks will be life for you if you don't do what he says?

You don't obey if you don't believe in Him. You don't believe that Christ death alone saved them He died for made them righteous.

 

[beloved57]

I think this makes it quite clear

Hebrews 6

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned

It says here that they were once enlightened, to be enlightened you have belong to God and then it says, once we have tasted of the heavenly gift and the good word of God and been partakers of the Holy Ghost and then fall away again, that we crucify Christ afresh, and not only crucify him but put him to an open shame. And if we bare thorns and briers then we're rejected and our ends will be burned.

If we once knowing God, we turn away and deny him by living by the lusts of our flesh and keep wilfully sinning, then we will be rejected. That's clear right through the Bible.

Who says being reconciled to God doesn't mean being eternally saved ? Show me the scripture that says that!

 

[beloved57]

If you think you can carry on wilfully sinning and you're going to heaven regardless, then you're seriously mistaken, Jesus taught that we are to turn from sin and deny ourselves.

By the way, you still haven't shown the scripture where it says that God exercised his fierce wrath on Christ, that's not the truth!

Them Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies Rom 5:10, wilfully sinning, that is why they were enemies. But they were still saved, reconciled to God.

 

[God's Truth]

You don't obey if you don't believe in Him. You don't believe that Christ death alone saved them He died for made them righteous.

Just listen to yourself. You cannot even stop repeating the same thing without being able to discuss it deeply because you just cannot look at what God says. Are you totally depraved and not chosen/elect, therefore you cannot hear and be saved? NO.

Jesus tells us why you cannot hear and he tells us how you can hear.

You refuse to do what Jesus says.

If you did what Jesus says, then you would not be in any snare; and it you happened to get into a snare, then obeying Jesus can get you out of it.

 

[God's Truth]

Their inability to will was their own fault, God did not affect their will- He rather just left them out according to what His providence ordained.

You all don't seem to want to understand Calvinism, rather you want to beat the same old straw man- a million times it has been explained, and a million times you all have come back with the same exact argument you are stating now.

Your defense is to say, "You just do not understand".

You are wrong; and, you merely saying that is no defense.

 

[God's Truth]

James teaches that faith that is gifted as the result of Godly regeneration and justification, always manifests and produces a sanctified and holy life.

James does not say that at all.

Not only THAT...Calvinism says that a person can't even have faith until they are regenerated!

James is not teaching that such a lively and divine gift of faith from God can ever die away.

God justifies us to EVERLASTING LIFE, not to temporary blessings that can be lost.

You just contradicted your yourself and Calvinism.

 

[God's Truth]

It says it's impossible to renew them again after a second falling away.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

That scripture is more about the Jews who were saved through Jesus...to then later go back to Judaism...

That scripture is also for everyone. It is about those who have experienced miracles and other such amazing things from God...yet goes back to the way they were before knowing. Him.

There were many signs and wonders during the New Testament times, the times of laying the foundation.

 

[Nihilo]

The wedding feast is the eucharist, the Lord's supper, His body and blood, as explicated in numerous places, including the first miracle, which in turning water to wine, Christ announces the eucharist.

The one without a garment is the one without saving faith in the Lord, or in a state of mortal sin, eating and drinking judgment upon themselves, in Paul's words. Of course, those outside the feast don't have garments either, but they're not consuming the elements either, and that means they're not eating Jesus' body and drinking His blood unworthily.

This is why the Catholic Church teaches so strictly about who can and who cannot and should not partake, this parable, and, because of the Apostle Paul's teachings on the eucharist.

What about those wearing wedding garments who aren't at the feast?

 

[Crucible]

Your defense is to say, "You just do not understand".

You are wrong; and, you merely saying that is no defense.

You all don't understand, which is why you all keep retreating to the same thing over and over- it's not a 'defense', because defense implies there is something to be defended from :chuckle:

 

[beloved57]

Just listen to yourself. You cannot even stop repeating the same thing without being able to discuss it deeply because you just cannot look at what God says. Are you totally depraved and not chosen/elect, therefore you cannot hear and be saved? NO.

Jesus tells us why you cannot hear and he tells us how you can hear.

You refuse to do what Jesus says.

If you did what Jesus says, then you would not be in any snare; and it you happened to get into a snare, then obeying Jesus can get you out of it.

You are still in disobedience, in fact a child of disobedience since you don't believe that by the Obedience of One, many shall be made righteous Rom 5:19

 

[Nang]

James does not say that at all.

Yes he does. James 1:17-18, 25, 2:14, 20-26

Not only THAT...Calvinism says that a person can't even have faith until they are regenerated!

Unregenerated persons only evidence dead faiths.

Regenerated persons evidence saving faith.

You just contradicted your yourself and Calvinism.

No I did not. The point made by James, is that any profession of faith that does not produce the fruits of the Holy Spirit and obedience, is a dead faith.

You yourself teach that the criteria for faithful obedience, is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit . . do you not?

Well, regeneration is when God bestows the Holy Spirit upon a sinner, raising the sinner by His grace to new life through the power of the Holy Spirit. Following this miracle, the sinner is enabled to believe and repent from sin, and is guaranteed everlasting life.
Ephesians 1:13-14

Those souls left unregenerated and bereft of the Holy Spirit can spout all kinds of expressions of faith, but it means nothing, because they remain dead in their sins, and their profession of faith is as dead as they are.

They might even attempt to obey the Law in order to find favor with God through obedience, but their obedience will never be perfect but will fall short of the glory and demands of God and never result in "life" because their obedience is nothing but dead works, produced by spiritually dead souls.

Regeneration always precedes faith. Faith precedes repentance. Faith and repentance precedes obedience. Obedience precedes a sanctified and holy life. All to the glory of God, alone, who provides His children with His Holy Spirit who is promised to lead them into all truth. John 16:13-14

 

[God's Truth]

Yes he does. James 1:17-18, 25, 2:14, 20-26

Look at what you did. You gave scripture as if I do not. I use those scriptures all the time and explain them.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Guess what Nang? The book of James was written to the twelve Tribes of Israel. James 1:1 "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting."

 

[Rosenritter]

The point is that Jesus has been punished for their sins. So for them to go to hell for their sins again is unjust.

Would you like to retract your statement that "God exercised his fierce wrath" on Jesus?

 

[Rosenritter]

You have misinterpreted the scripture. It says right at the beginning of verse 4 that it is IMPOSSIBLE. That means that it can never happen.

Then when God says that "Fear him that can destroy both body and soul in hell" he was also speaking nonsense, because it is impossible to destroy body and soul in hell? Is that really your defense? Honesty check, please. If I say "beware of the alligators" it's because there is a real possibility of alligators. If I say "It is impossible for me to bring you back to life if I inject you with this needle" it would be absurd to say unless there were such things as deadly needles.

 

[Rosenritter]

Old GM isn't obligated to post anything to you unless I have a desire to. I also have no obligation to answer your questions. If you don't like it, place me on Ignore. Understand? I hope so?

Understood that you will continue to act like a pompous self-important jester, and feel no shame in it.

 

[Brother Ducky]

Guess what Nang? The book of James was written to the twelve Tribes of Israel. James 1:1 "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting."

Interesting observation.

So why is James in the New Testament at all?

 

[Rosenritter]

Interesting observation.

So why is James in the New Testament at all?

So certain fringe cults can come up with excuses of how to ignore it.

2Ti 3:15-17 KJV
(15) And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Rom 2:28-29 KJV
(28) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
(29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Gal 3:28-29 KJV
(28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

<sarcasm>
Did you know that Jesus only commanded the Jews to go and sin no more? Here's proof!

Joh 8:11 KJV
(11) She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Gentiles are under a different dispensation. Jesus was only talking to the JEWS! Gentiles are under grace and can go sin as much as they want! And they can ignore every word contained in most gospels, and by James, and in Hebrews, and pretty much all of the Old Testament. God was just lying in those books.
</sarcasm>

 

[Lazy afternoon]

We can see why GM avoids the book of James--

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.


LA