ECT Differentiating being born-again from the Holy Spirit baptism

ZacharyB

Active member
This information is critical for helping believers understand what will be happening in the last days.
It is not what the churches teach for various reasons (explanation available).

Most believers say a person has been born-again when the Holy Spirit has come INSIDE
John 14:16-23, Rom 8:11, 1 Cor 3:16, Gal 4:6, 2 Tim 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16
This “baptism” is done by the Holy Spirit, and this verse is the ONLY
place in the NT where this “baptism” into the church is mentioned:
“For BY one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13)


Jesus was the first to receive another baptism … where the Holy Spirit comes UPON
“When He had been (water) baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water;
and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending
like a dove and alighting UPON Him.” (Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, John 1:32)


John the Baptist recalled that God told him, “UPON whom you see the Spirit descending,
and remaining ON Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ ” (John 1:33)

Yes, Jesus anoints some believers with this special baptism of spiritual power (which is
necessary for a ministry of some kind): Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33.

Peter spoke of the results of Jesus’ baptism
“God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power” (Acts 10:38).
Father God confirms the Truth of Jesus’ gospel with spiritual power (signs and wonders).

Jesus promised this “baptism with the Holy Spirit” to the first believers
Luke 24:49 • “Behold, I send the Promise of My Father UPON you;
but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

The translators assumed Jesus meant that “the Promise” (capital “P”) is the Holy Spirit,
but really Jesus was referring to this special baptism (see the small “p” in Acts 2:33 and 2:38).
Acts 1:4-8 • “He commanded them … to wait for the Promise of the Father …
‘you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now …
you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come UPON you’ ”


On the Day of Pentecost
Acts 2:3-4 • “Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire,
and one sat UPON each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit
and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave utterance.”

A few words (at least) spoken in tongues is the evidence of receiving this special baptism.

Peter explained what had just happened
Acts 2:33 • “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from
the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.”

Notice the small “p” (here and below) refers to the baptism (and not the Holy Spirit).

Peter explains how people can have the same experience
Acts 2:38 • “Repent, and let every one of you be (water) baptized in the name of Jesus
Christ for the remission of sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off …”

There is no mention at all in Acts up to this point about water baptism.
Both “the promise” and “the gift” refer to this “baptism with the Holy Spirit”, re: the Day of Pentecost.
Peter, at this point, had NO understanding of the Holy Spirit coming INSIDE of believers.
There is no mention at all anywhere in Acts to my knowledge about the indwelling Holy Spirit.

These Samarians had believed and had been water baptized
Acts 8:14-19 • “Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received
the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for
them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen UPON none of them.
They had only been (water) baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them,
and they received the Holy Spirit. And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’
hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also …”

Do you know anyone who showed spiritual power when they received the Holy Spirit and were born again?

Peter is involved in the first experience of Gentiles receiving the gift of the baptism with the Holy Spirit
Acts 10:44-48 • “the Holy Spirit fell UPON all those who heard the word. And the Jews who believed
were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured
out ON the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter
answered, ‘Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy
Spirit just as we have?’ And he commanded them to be (water) baptized in the name of the Lord.”

These believers were infilled with the Holy Spirit at the same time as they were Spirit-baptized.
And to follow along after this experience, here we have the first mention of water baptism.

Peter recalls his experience with the Gentiles (above)
Acts 11:15 • “… the Holy Spirit fell UPON them, as UPON us at the beginning.
Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water,
but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ ”


Paul helps some disciples at Ephesus receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit
Acts 19:5-6 • “… they were (water) baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came UPON them,
and they spoke with tongues and prophesied …”


In the 7 passages where it is specifically mentioned that the Holy Spirit
came UPON believers, these other items are also mentioned:
the promise, the gift, the baptism with the Holy Spirit, power, filled with
the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, laying on of hands, prophecy.
Such things are not involved when believers receive the Holy Spirit and are born-again.
 
Last edited:

Cross Reference

New member
This is critical for helping believers understand what will be happening in the last days!
It is not what the churches teach for various reasons (explanation available).

We say a person has been born-again when the Holy Spirit has come INSIDE
John 14:16-23, Rom 8:11, 1 Cor 3:16, Gal 4:6, 2 Tim 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16
The following “baptism” is done by the Holy Spirit, and this is the
ONLY place in Scripture where this unification “baptism” is mentioned …
“For BY one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13)

Miracle ... “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation” (2 Corinthians 5:17)
This can happen to a person without him/her even realizing it (witness me and Billy Graham!)

Jesus was the first to receive the special baptism where the Holy Spirit comes UPON
“When He had been (water) baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water;
and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending
like a dove and alighting UPON Him.” (Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, John 1:32)


Peter spoke of the results of Jesus’ baptism
Acts 10:38 • “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power”
Father God authenticated the Truth of Jesus’ gospel with power (signs and wonders).

John the Baptist said Jesus is the One who anoints people with a special
baptism with the Holy Spirit …
Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33

Jesus promised this baptism with the Holy Spirit to the first believers
Luke 24:49 • “Behold, I send the Promise of My Father UPON you;
but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”
Acts 1:4-8 • “He commanded them … to wait for the Promise of the Father …
‘you shall be baptized with the Holy Spiritn ot many days from now …
you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come UPON you’ ”

Peter said Jesus also received power when the Spirit came UPON Him (Acts 10:38).
The translators mistakenly assume that Jesus means the Promise (capital “P”) is the Holy Spirit,
but really Jesus is referring to this special baptism (see the small “p” in Acts 2:33 and 2:38).

On the Day of Pentecost
Acts 2:3-4 • “Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire,
and one sat UPON each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit
and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave utterance.”

A few words (at least) spoken in tongues is the evidence of receiving this special baptism.

Peter explains what had just happened
Acts 2:33 • “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from
the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.”

Notice the small “p” (here and below) refer to the baptism (and not the Holy Spirit).

Peter explains how people can have the same experience
Acts 2:38 • “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the
remission of sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you
and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

No mention at all up to this point about water baptism.
Both “the promise” and “the gift” refer to this baptism with the Holy Spirit re: the Day of Pentecost.
Peter, at this point, had NO understanding of the Holy Spirit coming INSIDE of believers.
It is not mentioned anywhere in Acts to my knowledge about the indwelling Holy Spirit.

These Samarians had believed and had been water baptized
Acts 8:14-19 • “Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received
the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for
them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen UPON none of them.
They had only been (water) baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them,
and they received the Holy Spirit. And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’
hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also …”

Do you know anyone who exhibited spiritual power at the point of receiving the Holy Spirit?

Peter is involved in the first experience of Gentiles receiving the gift of the baptism with the Holy Spirit
Acts 10:44-48 • “the Holy Spirit fell UPON all those who heard the word. And the Jews who believed
were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured
out ON the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter
answered, ‘Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the
Holy Spirit just as we have?’ And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.”

These believers were infilled with the Holy Spirit at the same time as they were Spirit-baptized.
And to follow along after this experience, here we have the first mention of water baptism.

Peter recalls his experience with the Gentiles (above)
Acts 11:15 • “… the Holy Spirit fell UPON them, as UPON us at the beginning.
Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water,
but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ ”


Paul helps some disciples at Ephesus receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit
Acts 19:5-6 • “… they were (water) baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid
hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came UPON them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied …”


In the 7 passages above where it is specifically mentioned that the Holy Spirit
came UPON believers, these other items are also mentioned:
in 4 verses -- the promise
in 2 verses -- the gift
in 2 verses -- the baptism with the Holy Spirit
in 2 verses -- power
in 1 verse --- filled with the Holy Spirit
in 3 verses -- speaking in tongues
in 2 verses -- laying on of hands
in 1 verse --- prophecy
These things are not involved when believers receive the Holy Spirit inside and are born-again.

Quite obviously, the Disciples understood that when one is baptized into/with something, there will be evidence that it happened; will testify of it. How else did Paul know as is described in Acts 19 or Peter in Acts 11:14-15?
 

ZacharyB

Active member
Did Jesus define what he meant by being born again?
Yes, you are correct ... this is a tough one!
I used to believe the standard belief, which I put in the OP:
one who has received the Spirit inside has been "born again".

But, lately, I see people insisting ...
one who has really been "born again" will be
displaying his/her NEW much more godly nature!
 

Cross Reference

New member
Yes, you are correct ... this is a tough one!
I used to believe the standard belief, which I put in the OP:
one who has received the Spirit inside has been "born again".

But, lately, I see people insisting ...
one who has really been "born again" will be
displaying his/her NEW much more godly nature!

The battle really only begins between one's flesh and the Law of the indwelling Life of Christ when one is born again. Evidence must happen if truly born again. Love must win.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER

We say a person has been born-again when the Holy Spirit has come INSIDE
John 14:16-23, Rom 8:11, 1 Cor 3:16, Gal 4:6, 2 Tim 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16
The following “baptism” is done by the Holy Spirit, and this is the ONLY place
in Scripture where this unification “baptism” is mentioned …
“For BY one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13)

Miracle ... “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation” (2 Corinthians 5:17)
This can happen to a person without him/her even realizing it (witness me and Billy Graham!)

It never occurred that the Holy Spirit would enter a man or a temple without either realizing it.


Men came into fellowship with the Holy Spirit in the OT without being born again.

Two things occur in the Holy place when men enter through blood and water, but both by the one action of the Presence of God in it, which comes from the most Holy Place. (not permanently in the Holy Place of bread and wine.)

There is no such thing as being born again without knowing it.

No new believers can enter the Holy Place in the 3.5 years, and those unworthy have been thrust out of it by then.

You are unlikely to understand all this because you think we are little boxes for God.

LA
 

Cross Reference

New member
Men came into fellowship with the Holy Spirit in the OT without being born again.

Two things occur in the Holy place when men enter through blood and water, but both by the one action of the Presence of God in it, which comes from the most Holy Place. (not permanently in the Holy Place of bread and wine.)

There is no such thing as being born again without knowing it.

No new believers can enter the Holy Place in the 3.5 years, and those unworthy have been thrust out of it by then.

You are unlikely to understand all this because you think we are little boxes for God.

LA

Fellowship? Name one.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
If you were really born again, you could see the kingdom of God.

John 1:51 (KJV)

An example.

Not necessarily with the natural eye.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
 
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