glorydaz
Well-known member
Jews seek after a sign. That's who water baptism was for.
ECT DID PAUL BAPTIZE , ARE YOU SURE ??
- Thread starter DAN P
- Start date
Jews seek after a sign. That's who water baptism was for.
What sign does baptism represent?
Paul taught it represented rebirth.
Do you believe Paul's teachings were just for Jews?
No one has been born without water, not physically and according to Jesus not spiritually.
Is God consistent, or what?
glorydaz
Well-known member
It was a sign of the Jews' acceptance of their Messiah.
Acts 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
No, he didn't.
No
God is very consistent, but man is quite capable of twisting God's words to suit themselves and their own understanding, as you have done here.
turbosixx
New member
This is from Paul's sermon in Acts 13. If you will notice in the next chapter, the bible says 14:7 and there they continued to preach the gospel. Paul's sermon is the gospel and is exactly the same as Peters in Acts 2.
God is consistent. Paul preached the same gospel and converted Christians the same way by baptizing the believers, in the name of Jesus, just as those before him did.
Forgiveness of Sins
Peter - Acts 2: 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Paul - Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
Baptism in the name of Jesus
Peter - Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Paul - Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Preaching the Kingdom
Philip - Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Paul - Acts 19:8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
glorydaz
Well-known member
So if it's the same Gospel, where is the justification through faith in Acts 2?
Acts 13:38-39 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Where is saved by grace through faith in Acts 2?
Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
If it doesn't fit, you must admit....
turbosixx
New member
Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Just like Paul.
Acts 22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’
And Paul converted believers by baptizing them in the name of Jesus just like those before him did, on all of his journeys.
glorydaz
Well-known member
What you have just done is to make the claim that "Paul converted believers" through baptism rather than by preaching the Gospel. :nono:
1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
They did the same thing with circumcision....to make a fair show in the flesh.
Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
Being washed is accomplished by the Holy Spirit when we are sanctified and justified by the Holy Spirit. Is it your claim that water baptism (performed by a man) can sanctify and justify us as well? I would think hard about that claim if I were you.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
It's in Acts 2:38.
"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins."
The remission of sins is by grace through faith.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Yes, that is what the Lord Jesus said and He equates that to being born of water and spirit:
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (Jn.3:3-5).
The words born of "water and of the Spirit" is the same thing as being "born again" and a person is born again when he believes the gospel. Being born again has nothing to do with water baptism.
The teaching of baptismal regeneration comes straight from pagan religions.
Hi Jerry and where does Paul ever use the phrase : BORN AGAIN " ??
And the Greek word for water is HUDOR and the Greek word for Spirit is PNEUMA are 2 different Greek words that mean different things !!~
Those that beieve that BAPTIZE / BAPTIZO do not understand that Water BAPTISM will stop and HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM will take the place of WATER as Luke wrote BY the Holy Spirit in Act 1:5 , how simple can that be !!
Better br careful glorydaz , you are becoming DANGEROUS if you keep leaning my way !!
dan p
And the Greek word for water is HUDOR and the Greek word for Spirit is PNEUMA are 2 different Greek words that mean different things !!~
Those that beieve that BAPTIZE / BAPTIZO do not understand that Water BAPTISM will stop and HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM will take the place of WATER as Luke wrote BY the Holy Spirit in Act 1:5 , how simple can that be !!
Better br careful glorydaz , you are becoming DANGEROUS if you keep leaning my way !!
dan p
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Do you not realize that no one will enter the kingdom unless he is born again?
Do you not think that you have been born again or born of the spirit?
Hi Jerry and if you do believe in John 3:5 , Except a man be born of water and the SPIRIT , he can not enter the Kingdom of God !!
Is this what you are IMPLYING ??
So tells us how a person is saved ??
What Kingdom of God is this ??
Is this the B O C ?
I have asked you , how you were saved , and never RECEIVED A CLEAR ANSWER ??
How were you saved , SINCE IN 1 Tim 1?16 Paul says that Paul is " PATTERN of the ones coming to believe on Him unto EVERLASTING LIFE ".
It is conflicting with YOUR , BORN of WATER and the SPIRIT , does it not ??
dan p
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I'm just saying that no one will enter the kingdom of God unless he is born again. And since all believers will enter the kingdom then all believers will be born again.
If I am wrong then tell me exactly what I said that is wrong.
turbosixx
New member
I don't understand why you say "rather than" preaching the gospel. The gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes. They were converted by the gospel.
I suggest you are looking at this subjectively instead of objectively. The gospel is salvation to those who "believe". What does it really mean to believe. People have their ideas but God has seen fit to give us examples so we can read and understand what it looks like to believe the gospel.
If we look at the case of the Corinthians, Paul preached the gospel and what does it say about those who believed? In Acts 18:8 where they were converted by Paul we see that Crispus "the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord". Crispus believed and we know that he was personally baptized by Paul.
If we continue with the verse we see And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized. They heard the gospel from Paul and those who truly believed were baptized. I suggest to you that is what it means to believe the gospel. It doesn't say, many believe and some decided to get baptized. All the believers were baptized.
If you consider the question Paul asks the Corinthians in 1 Cor. 1, why does he ask it?
Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
What is his point in asking this question?
Hi Jerry and you said " BORN AGAIN " and the next verse that uses " BORN AGAIN " is in 1 Peter 1:23 , where does Paul ever use this phrase ??
The BORN is used of Paul in 1 Cor 15:8 and another way to say as Acts 9:6 !!
Another telling verse is in Isa 66:8 , shall a nation be born in a day , which speaks of Israel's conversion !!
Your context is WRONG !!
dan p
turbosixx
New member
Hi Dan, I would suggest to you that what Jesus meant by telling Nicodemus he needed to be "born again" means that his first birth into the Jewish nation would not save him. That is why John the Baptist says this:
Luke 3:8 Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.
Hi, TRUBOSIXX , and Jesus says to Nicodemus , that was born of the flesh , is flesh , BUT one day all of Israel will be BORN of the SPIRIT and that means Isa 66:8 and at the Second Coming in Matt 24 !!
In Luke 3:8 CONTEXT is Israel and that Jesus could of those stones on the ground RAISE UP CHILDREN unto Abraham , so what is the CONTEXT , Israel !!
dan p
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Just because Paul didn't use that phrase doesn't mean that believers are not born again. If you don't think you are born again how do you think that you will enter into the kingdom of God?
Or do you think that the Lord Jesus was wrong when He said that no one will enter the kingdom unless they are born again?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Where is the grace and the faith in that verse?