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There is SO much more than that that needs to happen. You are very ignorant of ALL of the OTHER scriptures that describe the great and terrible day of the Lord.
Did God become flesh?
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Dartman posted me as having said:
You misquoted me. I never said, what you quoted me, as having said. You are a deceptive, habitual liar.
You misquoted me. I never said, what you quoted me, as having said. You are a deceptive, habitual liar.
Post #1096
No, scores teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, habitual liar.
No, "everything" did not happen exactly how He said it would happen, and saying it did does not make it so, nor does it change what scripture says.
Nope, which explains why God prevented Moses from seeing His face.
The text doesn't state your point. Moses didn't know that his face shone .... that doesn't mean there was nothing unusual that happens.... MOSES is the one who recorded the entire event!! As far as we know, this is the ONLY time man was allowed to see THIS much of Jehovah's physical being!Rosenritter said:
True. And if their face isn't visible for whatever reason (a curtain, darkness, bandages, etc.)Rosenritter said:
You are adding "like a normal person". That isn't in the text. It is extremely ABNORMAL to speak "face to face" with God! God isn't often physically/geographically THAT near anyone!Rosenritter said:
We have absolutely irrefutable proof that Moses would have DIED if he saw Jehovah's face;
Ex 33:17-23 And Jehovah said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken; for thou hast found favor in my sight, and I know thee by name.
18 And he said, Show me, I pray thee, thy glory.
19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and will proclaim the name of Jehovah before thee; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live.
21 and Jehovah said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon the rock:
22 and it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand until I have passed by:
23 and I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my back; but my face shall not be seen
Ex 34:6-8 And Jehovah passed by before him, and proclaimed, Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abundant in lovingkindness and truth, 7 keeping lovingkindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin; and that will by no means clear (the guilty), visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation.
8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.
.... and that dispels the argument (which I have heard before) that God is by nature invisible... God is by circumstance not seen.
Hey friend,
They are blind to the truth... They see Jesus saying... My father and I are one... One what? One in unity... NO they see one God? However if you or I said my father and I are one... they would never assume that you or I are our actual father :think:
So lets review AGAIN for them... what does the term... "Son of God" actually mean to a Jew in the 1st century!
Son of God - This title for Jesus has been given meanings and attributes that were never intended. People have erroneously used the human father-son relationship to describe this title of Jesus’. They have thought that since a human son has the actual essence (made of the same matter) of his father, that therefore, this title implies that Jesus being the Son of God is of the same essence of God. This conclusion will lead you right into the Doctrine of the Trinity. This is the formula they adopted at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD when they said:
"The Son is of the same substance as the Father."
It was at this council that Jesus was first made God. The Holy Spirit interestingly enough was not included in the formula. It was included fifty-six years later at another council. Let’s see what this title really means:
Son of God - In the Old Testament Israel is described as God’s first-born (Exodus 4:22) and is called His son. There is therefore precedence for calling the Messiah "Son of God" for he is Israel’s representative par excellence (ZEB, vol.4, pg.203-204).
"Son of God" denotes an intimate relationship with the Father. It is obvious that sonship must not be understood in a crude pagan american way. This bears out Dalman’s contention that the Hebrew concept of "son" does not denote an extensive circle of relationships" (ZEB, vol.4, pg. 205). Adam was called the "son of God" (Luke 3:38), God calls King Solomon His "son" in 1 Chronicles 28:6.
For Paul, "Son of God" is essentially a Christological description expressing "the Son’s solidarity with God" (ZEB, vol.4, pg.204). Closeness to the Father is the basic meaning of "Son of God"(Ibid). This closeness was a relationship that was shared by God’s anointed kings of Israel. Since Jesus is the ideal king of Israel, he is naturally the ideal Son of God. This is how the term came to be synonymous with Messiah and king of Israel. They are all different ways of saying the same thing.
The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible vol. 4 pg. 204 states:
"The last chapter of the first epistle of John makes every possible emphasis upon the principle that Sonship is the mark of Messiahship. The same is the case with the fourth gospel where the Son of God is synonymous with Messiah and occurs more frequently than any other title. Haenchen maintains that the same equation: Messiah = Son of God = Son of Man applies to Mark’s gospel. The same can be said of the rest of the New Testament."
Aspects of Monotheism pg.90 states:
"The notion that the Davidic king was the son of God is well established in the Hebrew Bible in 2 Samuel 7:14 and in Psalm 2:7. It was only natural then that the coming messianic king should also be regarded as the Son of God. To say that the king was the son of God, however, does not necessarily imply divinization."
This is the meaning of the title "Son of God." Messiah = Son of God = king of Israel = Son of Man. The Messiah does have the closest and most intimate relationship with the Father. Let’s take a look at some verses to confirm this.
"The kings of the earth rise up, and the princes conspire together against the LORD and His anointed (Messiah)"… "I myself have set up my king on Zion (Israel)"… "The LORD said to me, "You are my son" (Psalm 2:2,6-7).
Here we see God speaking of the Messiah using all three titles; Messiah, king of Zion, and son.
"He first found his own brother and told him, "We have found the Messiah"…"Rabbi, you are the Son of God: you are the King of Israel" (John 1:41& 49).
John cannot be clearer on this title; the Son of God is the King of Israel. This is the Jewish meaning of "Son of God." Any other definition will take away from the true meaning of the title into something that was never intended by its Jewish author.
They need to study harder...
:sherlock:
oly:Paul
None teach "Jesus Christ is God in the flesh".
Not one Scripture records a teacher preaching the IDEA that "Jesus Christ is God in the flesh" to ANY audience .... EVER!
Which destroys YOUR "Jesus";
2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Nope. Try again.
You made that up. Scores of verses do, as you've been shown, but due to 2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV, you spin them, change words, and satanically employ, "Well, it really does not mean that..."
(Phil 2:5-7) In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
You can't be a human, and then be made "in human likeness".
You also can't have equality with God, and be a man.
This statement utterly contradicts VAST quantities of Scripture!!
Does "nevertheless, let THY will be done, and NOT mine" ring a bell?
Does John 12:49-50 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
....RING A BELL??
[quote-6days] We clearly see in Scripture that Jesus was omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent.[/quote]Those words are not Scripture .... nor are they accurate. Jesus did NOT know "the day or the hour" of his return. Jesus is NOT more "potent" than his God, Jesus said "my Father is greater than I". Omnipresent is a total lie.
God's spirit perceives all things, at all times.... God is LITERALLY in heaven, according to Scripture, and more specifically according to Jesus.
[quote-6days]The Jews of Jesus time, clearly understood that Jesus claimed equality with God. (Ex. John 5:18)[/quote]Wrong.
ONLY the Jews that rejected Jesus made this accusation.
The Jews that BELIEVED on Jesus clearly understood that Jesus is "the son of the living God".
(Phil 2:8) And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself...
he humbled himself...
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9 KJV
This is Paul's point-"the Lord Jesus"= You must acknowlege Him as Lord=Deity=God. Eventually, all will do this(including Satan and "his gang" and the unsaved), all will acknowlegde that He is God, as it is written:
"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:10-11 KJV
Survey Isaiah 45 KJV
1 Thus saith the Lord to his anointed,
to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden,
to subdue nations before him;
and I will loose the loins of kings,
to open before him the two leaved gates;
and the gates shall not be shut;
2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight:
I will break in pieces the gates of brass,
and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3 and I will give thee the treasures of darkness,
and hidden riches of secret places,
that thou mayest know that I, the Lord,
which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect,
I have even called thee by thy name:
I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
5 I am the Lord, and there is none else,
there is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
that there is none beside me.
I am the Lord, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.
8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above,
and let the skies pour down righteousness:
let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation,
and let righteousness spring up together;
I the Lord have created it.
9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker!
Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth.
Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou?
or thy work, He hath no hands?
10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou?
or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
11 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker,
Ask me of things to come concerning my sons,
and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it:
I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens,
and all their host have I commanded.
13 I have raised him up in righteousness,
and I will direct all his ways:
he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives,
not for price nor reward,
saith the Lord of hosts.
14 Thus saith the Lord,
The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature,
shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine:
they shall come after thee;
in chains they shall come over,
and they shall fall down unto thee,
they shall make supplication unto thee, saying,
Surely God is in thee;
and there is none else,
there is no God.
15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself,
O God of Israel, the Saviour.
16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them:
they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation:
ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens;
God himself that formed the earth and made it;
he hath established it,
he created it not in vain,
he formed it to be inhabited:
I am the Lord; and there is none else.
19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth:
I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain:
I the Lord speak righteousness,
I declare things that are right.
20 Assemble yourselves and come;
draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations:
they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image,
and pray unto a god that cannot save.
21 Tell ye, and bring them near;
yea, let them take counsel together:
who hath declared this from ancient time?
who hath told it from that time?
have not I the Lord?
and there is no God else beside me;
a just God and a Saviour;
there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth:
for I am God,
and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself,
the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return,
That unto me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.
24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength:
even to him shall men come;
and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified,
and shall glory.
_________
To whom must "every knee shall bow," and " every tongue shall swear?"
The Lord....God....Over and over...
QED. EOT.CLOSED.
This is Paul's point-"the Lord Jesus"= You must acknowlege Him as Lord=Deity=God. Eventually, all will do this(including Satan and "his gang" and the unsaved), all will acknowlegde that He is God, as it is written:
"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:10-11 KJV
Survey Isaiah 45 KJV
1 Thus saith the Lord to his anointed,
to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden,
to subdue nations before him;
and I will loose the loins of kings,
to open before him the two leaved gates;
and the gates shall not be shut;
2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight:
I will break in pieces the gates of brass,
and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3 and I will give thee the treasures of darkness,
and hidden riches of secret places,
that thou mayest know that I, the Lord,
which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect,
I have even called thee by thy name:
I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
5 I am the Lord, and there is none else,
there is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
that there is none beside me.
I am the Lord, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.
8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above,
and let the skies pour down righteousness:
let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation,
and let righteousness spring up together;
I the Lord have created it.
9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker!
Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth.
Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou?
or thy work, He hath no hands?
10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou?
or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
11 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker,
Ask me of things to come concerning my sons,
and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it:
I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens,
and all their host have I commanded.
13 I have raised him up in righteousness,
and I will direct all his ways:
he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives,
not for price nor reward,
saith the Lord of hosts.
14 Thus saith the Lord,
The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature,
shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine:
they shall come after thee;
in chains they shall come over,
and they shall fall down unto thee,
they shall make supplication unto thee, saying,
Surely God is in thee;
and there is none else,
there is no God.
15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself,
O God of Israel, the Saviour.
16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them:
they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation:
ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens;
God himself that formed the earth and made it;
he hath established it,
he created it not in vain,
he formed it to be inhabited:
I am the Lord; and there is none else.
19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth:
I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain:
I the Lord speak righteousness,
I declare things that are right.
20 Assemble yourselves and come;
draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations:
they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image,
and pray unto a god that cannot save.
21 Tell ye, and bring them near;
yea, let them take counsel together:
who hath declared this from ancient time?
who hath told it from that time?
have not I the Lord?
and there is no God else beside me;
a just God and a Saviour;
there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth:
for I am God,
and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself,
the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return,
That unto me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.
24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength:
even to him shall men come;
and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified,
and shall glory.
_________
To whom must "every knee shall bow," and " every tongue shall swear?"
The Lord....God....Over and over...
QED. EOT.CLOSED.
You made that up.[/quote]What part??? You think I made up 2 Cor 11???john w;5302804[quote=Dartman said:
You think I "made up" the fact that None teach "Jesus Christ is God in the flesh".
Not one Scripture records a teacher preaching the IDEA that "Jesus Christ is God in the flesh" to ANY audience .... EVER!
Of course not! Your claim is dishonest.
[/quote]
Your distortions are NOT what the text means. And, what the texts ACTUALLY STATE IS what the text means.Johnw said:
2 Cor 4:4 describes you. 2 Cor 11:3,4 destroys YOUR "Jesus", since you absolutely CANNOT produce ANY example of your "Jesus" being PREACHED to ANY audience in the Scriptures.
So, looking at the "Jesus" that IS taught, we see Jesus of Nazareth ... A MAN.. a DESCENDANT of David and Abraham.... A MAN, that God exalted to be Lord, Christ, King, Prince ...... but not one single text that states God exalted Jesus to be GOD!!
(Phil 2:5-8) your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
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