Did God become flesh?

[meshak]

Does prophecy involve God's commands or commandments?

no.

Is there a difference between prophecy and prophesy? Is prophecy a subject while prophesy is a command that doesn't need to be heeded?

Where did you get those? I didn't know there are two of them.

 

[Jacob]

no.





Where did you get those? I didn't know there are two of them.

I grew up with this, but some might think that they are interchangeable. Do you know the difference between foretelling like a fortune teller (unBiblical) and forth telling like a believer explaining God's commandments and the repercussions for not observing or keeping them? I have heard that prophecy is either foretelling or forth telling. I am sure that there are differences including things that are unBiblical that could be discussed. Prophesy is also a Biblical subject. Some believe that foretelling is Biblical.

 

[Jacob]

It was

prophesy who hit you

 

[Rosenritter]

I am an honest. that is my asset.


You are the one who does not admit I make sense and logical and biblical.


Pride is not such good thing to obtain.

Then please use this asset and honestly tell me: who is greater, Meshak or Hitomi? Answer me this, and I will then be able to respond to your previous allegation / accusation.

 

[meshak]

Then please use this asset and honestly tell me: who is greater, Meshak or Hitomi? Answer me this, and I will then be able to respond to your previous allegation / accusation.

What is the point of this question?

Are you going to tell me that because hitomi and meshak are the same, you can use the same logic with God and Jesus?

I tell you, they are apples and oranges and horrible comparison.

 

[meshak]

Rosen,

God and Jesus are not the same Persons. Hitomi and mashak are the same person.

So your comparison is illogical, to say the least.

 

[Apple7]

ALL IMAGES ARE CREATIONS.

Incorrect.

The Greek terms utilized in your two examples cannot be lexically defined as 'creation'.

An image needs a subject to be an image of.

The image of God is God.

God needed to exist BEFORE his IMAGE could be created.

Again...The Greek terms utilized in your two examples cannot be lexically defined as 'creation'.

Proof that God was alone until he created his express image and gave IT his fullness.

The Trinity has always been one God.

 

[Rosenritter]

What is the point of this question?

Are you going to tell me that because hitomi and meshak are the same, you can use the same logic with God and Jesus?

I tell you, they are apples and oranges and horrible comparison.

1. If you allow yourself to be known by two different names depending on whether it is within the realm of Earth or the created realm of Theology Online,

2. then that shows that the argument that God cannot also be known by different names depending on whether it is within the realm of Heaven or the created realm of Earth is inconsistent.

As for your question of application, while we might draw analogy that we ourselves understand of being in more than one realm at a time with a different mode of existence, God is far more supreme in power and certainly more capable of manifesting in multiple forms or realms at once. You yourself acknowledged that this is within his power.

I believe that you are operating on a certain set of assumptions which may not necessarily be valid. For example, "God does not manifest in physical form" might be a barrier to accepting Jesus as God manifest in the flesh, but it isn't an assumption supported by scripture. It should only be fair that we allow our assumptions to be subject to examination.

Wouldn't you agree? I would likewise address any assumptions that you might suggest would be influencing my interpretation.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

No it didn't. The Geneva bible came before the King James. But what would be your point here? Greek doesn't have capitals letters.

John 1:1 Geneva
(1) In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God.



Are you attempting to make an argument that the Father of Spirits that created all things is better described as neuter "it" rather than "he?"



Only perhaps with spiritual blinders and a self-imposed veil. "The worlde was made by him" is a very distinctive identification.

John 1:10-12 Tyndale
(10) He was in ye worlde and the worlde was made by him: and yet the worlde knewe him not.
(11) He cam amonge his (awne) and his awne receaved him not.
(12) But as meny as receaved him to them he gave power to be the sonnes of God in yt they beleved on his name:

LA, perhaps you can explain to me why you think the Bible has so many parts that need to be "explained away" if Jesus was simply another prophet? Why would a human prophet use the names of God, forgive sin, explain that he had seen the devil fall from heaven, attest that his age was greater than Abraham with the address used for Moses at the bush, why would Paul and John say that he was the creator, why would Paul quote the Old Testament and substitute "Jesus" where the original text says the LORD speaks with the word "me?"

Isaiah 45:21-23 KJV
(21) Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
(22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
(23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Philippians 2:10 KJV
(10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Plainly speaking, no one that believes as you do would ever write in such a fashion, and no non-blaspheming human prophet that was not our God would have said anything like Christ said about himself or taken the names and titles and privileges that he did.

So maybe you can explain to me why, if what you say is true, that the scripture and the words of Christ are written so blasphemously.

John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. (KJV)


1. Trinitarians use this verse to show that Christ made the world and its contents. However, that is not the case. What we have learned from the study of John 1:1 above will be helpful in properly interpreting this verse.


John 1:1-3
(1) In the beginning was the Word [the wisdom, plan or purpose of God], and the Word was with God, and
the Word was divine.
(2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(3) All things were made by it [the Word]; and without it was not anything made that was made.

2. The pronoun in verse 3 can legitimately be translated as “it.” It does not have to be translated as “him,” and it does not have to refer to a “person” in any way. A primary reason why people get the idea that “the Word” is a person is that the pronoun “he” is used with it. The Greek text does, of course, have the masculine pronoun, because like many languages, including Spanish, French, German, Latin, Hebrew, etc., the Greek language assigns a gender to all nouns, and the gender of the pronoun must agree with the gender of the noun. In French, for example, a table is feminine, la table, while a desk is masculine, le bureau, and feminine and masculine pronouns are required to agree with the gender of the noun. In translating from French to English, however, we would never translate “the table, she,” or “the desk, he.” And we would never insist that a table or desk was somehow a person just because it had a masculine or feminine pronoun. We would use the English designation “it” for the table and the desk, in spite of the fact that in the original language the table and desk have a masculine or feminine gender.

Read the full article--

https://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/john-1-3

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Don't change the subject. Jesus says His Father is greater than I.

Why don't you honor or trust His word?

Many do not in preferring the words of other unbelievers.

God's Chosen Servant
Mat 12:15 But when Jesus knew it, He withdrew from there. And great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them all.
Mat 12:16 Yet He warned them not to make Him known,
Mat 12:17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:
Mat 12:18 "BEHOLD! MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN, MY BELOVED IN WHOM MY SOUL IS WELL PLEASED! I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT UPON HIM, AND HE WILL DECLARE JUSTICE TO THE GENTILES.
Mat 12:19 HE WILL NOT QUARREL NOR CRY OUT, NOR WILL ANYONE HEAR HIS VOICE IN THE STREETS.
Mat 12:20 A BRUISED REED HE WILL NOT BREAK, AND SMOKING FLAX HE WILL NOT QUENCH, TILL HE SENDS FORTH JUSTICE TO VICTORY;
Mat 12:21 AND IN HIS NAME GENTILES WILL TRUST."

LA

 

[meshak]

Many do not in preferring the words of other unbelievers.

But I am not unbeliever.

 

[meshak]

1. If you allow yourself to be known by two different names depending on whether it is within the realm of Earth or the created realm of Theology Online,

2. then that shows that the argument that God cannot also be known by different names depending on whether it is within the realm of Heaven or the created realm of Earth is inconsistent.

As for your question of application, while we might draw analogy that we ourselves understand of being in more than one realm at a time with a different mode of existence, God is far more supreme in power and certainly more capable of manifesting in multiple forms or realms at once. You yourself acknowledged that this is within his power.

I believe that you are operating on a certain set of assumptions which may not necessarily be valid. For example, "God does not manifest in physical form" might be a barrier to accepting Jesus as God manifest in the flesh, but it isn't an assumption supported by scripture. It should only be fair that we allow our assumptions to be subject to examination.

Wouldn't you agree? I would likewise address any assumptions that you might suggest would be influencing my interpretation.

So far, your reasoning and approaching is dishonest. It is no different than the typical trin believers.

You are trying so hard to fit your desirable doctrine to fit your doctrine. It should be the other way around to fit into Jesus' clear statements.

So it is meaningless to discuss with you about biblical matters.

You will not accept it no matter what I say.

What you are doing is trying to prove I am wrong.

 

[JudgeRightly]

So far, your reasoning and approaching is dishonest. It is no different than the typical trin believers.

You are trying so hard to fit your desirable doctrine to fit your doctrine. It should be the other way around to fit into Jesus' clear statements.

So it is meaningless to discuss with you about biblical matters.

You will not accept it no matter what I say.

What you are doing is trying to prove I am wrong.

A good sign that one's ideas or beliefs are correct is if they can stand up to scrutiny.

You won't let your arguments even be considered, let alone scrutinized. Which makes it very likely that yours are incorrect.

You should leave this forum, as it is a forum for SCRUTINY OF IDEAS, not for proseletyzing.

 

[Right Divider]

You should leave this forum, as it is a forum for SCRUTINY OF IDEAS, not for proseletyzing.

If meshak #2 leaves, does meshak #1 have to leave too? :french:

 

[drbrumley]

So far, your reasoning and approaching is dishonest. It is no different than the typical trin believers.

You are trying so hard to fit your desirable doctrine to fit your doctrine. It should be the other way around to fit into Jesus' clear statements.

So it is meaningless to discuss with you about biblical matters.

You will not accept it no matter what I say.

What you are doing is trying to prove I am wrong.

Told ya Rosen.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Told ya Rosen.

:think:

Yup. But Meshak won't accept anything other than Jesus' own words for correction. She rejects everything but His words.

Guess I forgot to mention that she also rejects some of Jesus' words as well.

Specifically:

Spoiler

Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priestand asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven.Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?” Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one.Then Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened he saw no one. But they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus.And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying.And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus. - Acts 9:1-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts9:1-19&version=NKJV

[MENTION=18255]Rosenritter[/MENTION]See, what did I tell ya?

 

[Bright Raven]

good grief.

Another one who misinterprets Scripture.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

No it didn't. The Geneva bible came before the King James. But what would be your point here? Greek doesn't have capitals letters.

John 1:1 Geneva
(1) In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God.



Are you attempting to make an argument that the Father of Spirits that created all things is better described as neuter "it" rather than "he?"



Only perhaps with spiritual blinders and a self-imposed veil. "The worlde was made by him" is a very distinctive identification.

John 1:10-12 Tyndale
(10) He was in ye worlde and the worlde was made by him: and yet the worlde knewe him not.
(11) He cam amonge his (awne) and his awne receaved him not.
(12) But as meny as receaved him to them he gave power to be the sonnes of God in yt they beleved on his name:

You do not see or confess that The Father (God) was IN Christ.

You think Jesus and the Father are one and the same individual, but they are not.

Thus you have no mediator in your life at all.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

LA, perhaps you can explain to me why you think the Bible has so many parts that need to be "explained away" if Jesus was simply another prophet? Why would a human prophet use the names of God, forgive sin, explain that he had seen the devil fall from heaven, attest that his age was greater than Abraham with the address used for Moses at the bush, why would Paul and John say that he was the creator, why would Paul quote the Old Testament and substitute "Jesus" where the original text says the LORD speaks with the word "me?"

Isaiah 45:21-23 KJV
(21) Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
(22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
(23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Philippians 2:10 KJV
(10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

The Father gave Jesus the name above every name, and you should know that God can not be tempted or die.

and only a second righteous Adam could atone for mans sin.

You claim I said things I did not just to cover your own unbelief of scripture.

Plainly speaking, no one that believes as you do would ever write in such a fashion, and no non-blaspheming human prophet that was not our God would have said anything like Christ said about himself or taken the names and titles and privileges that he did.

Jesus did the opposite and refused His right as Gods son and King over Israel to destroy His enemies as all other Kings did before Him, as you and others try to do on this board who do not know Him or His Father. Jesus did only that might lead men to repentance.

So maybe you can explain to me why, if what you say is true, that the scripture and the words of Christ are written so blasphemously.

You think the same as accusers of Jesus in His time on earth, in that anyone who speaks the truth to you seems to be blaspheming.

Until you repent of your great and mighty self reasoning which is so full of error, you will not experience the great love of God which was in Jesus Christ.

LA

 

[Rosenritter]

John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. (KJV)


1. Trinitarians use this verse to show that Christ made the world and its contents. However, that is not the case. What we have learned from the study of John 1:1 above will be helpful in properly interpreting this verse.

1.The passage does clearly show that Christ made the world and its contents. Even Meshak agrees on this. And I'm not Trinitarian.

John 1:1-3
(1) In the beginning was the Word [the wisdom, plan or purpose of God], and the Word was with God, and
the Word was divine.
(2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(3) All things were made by it [the Word]; and without it was not anything made that was made.

2. The pronoun in verse 3 can legitimately be translated as “it.” It does not have to be translated as “him,” and it does not have to refer to a “person” in any way. A primary reason why people get the idea that “the Word” is a person is that the pronoun “he” is used with it. The Greek text does, of course, have the masculine pronoun, because like many languages, including Spanish, French, German, Latin, Hebrew, etc., the Greek language assigns a gender to all nouns, and the gender of the pronoun must agree with the gender of the noun. In French, for example, a table is feminine, la table, while a desk is masculine, le bureau, and feminine and masculine pronouns are required to agree with the gender of the noun. In translating from French to English, however, we would never translate “the table, she,” or “the desk, he.” And we would never insist that a table or desk was somehow a person just because it had a masculine or feminine pronoun. We would use the English designation “it” for the table and the desk, in spite of the fact that in the original language the table and desk have a masculine or feminine gender.

Read the full article--

https://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/john-1-3

LA

Are you able to speak for yourself? Because, "Biblical Unitarians aren't very biblical." That's a quote from a friend of mine that used to be a Biblical Unitarian, who previously went through the process of subjecting me to most every question from those sites.

 

[Rosenritter]

So far, your reasoning and approaching is dishonest. It is no different than the typical trin believers.

That's a rather tall charge. If my reasoning and approach is dishonest, then please show me where I have been inconsistent.

You are trying so hard to fit your desirable doctrine to fit your doctrine. It should be the other way around to fit into Jesus' clear statements.

So it is meaningless to discuss with you about biblical matters.

You will not accept it no matter what I say.

But you are upset at me because I have believed Jesus's statements.

What you are doing is trying to prove I am wrong.

Which is a necessary phase in the process of reversing error towards truth. This shouldn't offend you if you recognize that there is such a thing as objective truth and revelation.