Creation vs. Evolution
- Thread starter MichaelCadry
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Dear Hedshaker,
How's it going, dude?! It's been a while since I've heard from you. Dishing up some fine music these days? Anything in the works? Good music can make or break the song. So can the lyrics. I like that Hozier song, "Take Me To Church" but I don't like the lyrics at all. It's too bad all of that going to waste. I mean it's a really good song music-wise, and he sings really different and well, it's catchy, but then the words screw it up. Whatever.
What have you got going this weekend? Besides chores. Take one day off and just rest, and then do your weekend chores on the other. Oh well, I forgot you were atheist there for a minute again and realize that you don't celebrate the Sabbath. You are a nice, good person. You just don't have the credentials of being a Christian. So you're halfway there. Well, I'm not a judge anyways. Perish the thought. If you feel inclined to love God, then Amen!
Do you write music with anyone else involved also. Or are you pretty much going solo, like myself. I'd probably do well with some bass and a drummer. But it's too late for me to sing publicly anymore. My voice capacity has been ravaged by too much cigarette smoking. So I have moderate to severe emphysema. I can still sing though. I just can't hold notes in any great amount of time. I'm not Lady Gaga, or Whitney Houston. They've got a lot of lung power. Well, Whitney did. I know she's no longer with us. Anyway, I've been told I sound excellent doing some Cat Stevens. Well, I'll get going. I know I'm off post a bit, but it's my thread, so I will indulge myself. Have an excellent weekend and Make It Count!!
Cheerio And Best Wishes, Mate!!
Michael
:angel: :cloud9: :guitar: :singer: :thumb:
Dear rstrats,
As a Christian, I can eat what I want. It is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean {See Acts 10 or 11 KJV}.
I generally use ham or bacon, but I prefer Canadian Bacon. Do you know that God does not quit loving me just because I eat bacon? Our pork is USDA approved and tested. That makes a big difference. The same with shellfish. It is written to not eat any seafood without a fin. So whoever eats crab legs or squid is sinning {See Lev. 11:10 KJV}. Not any more.
God Be With You,
Michael
:angel: :angel: :cloud9: :cloud9:
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MichaelCadry,
re: "As a Christian, I can eat what I want. It is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean."
I assume that you are referring to Mathew 15 and Mark 7. The context of those chapters has to do with the Pharisees' practice of always washing their hands before eating. The subject is not clean and unclean animals, but unclean hands. The Messiah showed that unclean thoughts are the things that most defile a man, not just unwashed hands. After explaining that inner defilement of the mind is far worse than defilement of the body, the Messiah concluded, "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."
The Pharisees watched every word and movement that the Messiah made. They falsely accused Him of breaking the Sabbath, and claimed that He blasphemed when He said God was His Father John 5:18. But never did any Jew ever accuse the Messiah of eating, or advocating the eating of unclean animals.
re: ". Do you know that God does not quit loving me just because I eat bacon?"
Maybe not, but He might be a little perturbed. In Isaiah He speaks about "a rebellious people which walk in a way that is not good, after their own thoughts; a people that provoke Me to anger continually to My face" (65:2,3). One of the reasons these people provoke the Lord is because they "eat swine's flesh, and broth of unclean meat is in their pots" (65:4).
Also, before the new heavens and new earth are established, He declares that He will consume those people "who eat swine's flesh, detestable things, and mice" (Isa.66:17). The context of this prophecy is the end times, right before the new heaven and new earth. This would certainly seem to suggest that the Lord will still expect an obedience to His dietary laws.
re: "As a Christian, I can eat what I want. It is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean."
I assume that you are referring to Mathew 15 and Mark 7. The context of those chapters has to do with the Pharisees' practice of always washing their hands before eating. The subject is not clean and unclean animals, but unclean hands. The Messiah showed that unclean thoughts are the things that most defile a man, not just unwashed hands. After explaining that inner defilement of the mind is far worse than defilement of the body, the Messiah concluded, "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."
The Pharisees watched every word and movement that the Messiah made. They falsely accused Him of breaking the Sabbath, and claimed that He blasphemed when He said God was His Father John 5:18. But never did any Jew ever accuse the Messiah of eating, or advocating the eating of unclean animals.
re: ". Do you know that God does not quit loving me just because I eat bacon?"
Maybe not, but He might be a little perturbed. In Isaiah He speaks about "a rebellious people which walk in a way that is not good, after their own thoughts; a people that provoke Me to anger continually to My face" (65:2,3). One of the reasons these people provoke the Lord is because they "eat swine's flesh, and broth of unclean meat is in their pots" (65:4).
Also, before the new heavens and new earth are established, He declares that He will consume those people "who eat swine's flesh, detestable things, and mice" (Isa.66:17). The context of this prophecy is the end times, right before the new heaven and new earth. This would certainly seem to suggest that the Lord will still expect an obedience to His dietary laws.
6days
New member
Paul as a good Jew was reluctant to change his diet. God showed Paul that his beliefs were his own, and not scriptural. All food is clean. See Acts 10
Dear Caino,
Yes, but you seem to have put your faith into alien writings, leaving a relationship with God practically impossible, for you do not know Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, not as the only way to Eternal Life. Do you think your Urantia Books will get you to Heaven? Caino, Think Again!! And where is the Holy Ghost in your frame of reference. Watch out what you say about Him because blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is unforgivable. Your Urantia Papers aren't worth that. And no, the 'scripture books' are not made by 'Church government', but instead, we have the Bible. It is sound and has sold tons more than your Urantia Book.
May God Be With You Instead Of Satan,
Michael
:angel: :angel: :cloud9: :guitar:
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Dear rstrats,
From what I understand, 6days is correct. Try reading Acts 10 KJV and also Act 11 KJV, and tell me what do you think. God made the unclean clean. It all is a matter of interpretation. You could think it either way. Paul thought that the Gentiles were unclean. And Paul was shown in a dream that the unclean were with the clean, and that God had caused that to be so. So this may refer only to the Gentiles, or it may refer to food also. The difference now is that the USDA checks the hams {and pork} for any possible worms or uncleanness in the meat. Now the way I see it is that God has made the pork and the crab legs, oysters, clams, etc. clean enough to be eaten by people. Otherwise, we are all committing an abomination unknowingly after these many, many years. Soon, man will not have the USDA to test his meat for him, so he will have to butcher his hogs himself in order to eat them. So that, I would not go for, because he could get trichinosis. But you see, after Armageddon, there will be a great change in the Earth and it may be quite a while before any electricity will be up and running again, or purified water, etc. You will know when that time comes. There will be no toilets, etc. There will be no sanitation dept. There will be no more computers. There will be a total upheaval in our whole lives and the way we live them. There shall be none of the good things that we now take for granted. There will be no satellite signals, etc. The Earth shall reel to and fro, like a drunkard, in that day {Isa. 24:20KJV}. Oh well, I digress. There are a lot more things you are going to have to worry about besides whether to eat pork. But yes, I wouldn't eat butchered pork that was not USDA inspected. That's the whole difference. And I love my oysters, but I can give them up easily. Same with clam chowder. Oysters, clams, scallops, squid, crabs, etc. have no fins, so they are unclean as it is written. But now we all eat them with no problem, because we don't know any better. There goes that New England Clam Chowder or Oysters Rockefeller. Oy vay!! You make everything so hard. Lobsters and shrimp do have a fin. Okay, will get going for now.
Much Love, In Christ,
Michael
:cloud9: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:
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Dear 6days,
How are ya' doing these days?? That's what I figured too, and that is how I read the scripture also. Thanks for posting. I wasn't sure where that was written, to be honest. I knew I'd read it before. You take good care and hang in there!!
Tons Of Love, In Christ,
Michael
:angel: :angel: :rapture: :cloud9: :cloud9:
Dear Alwight,
Please don't be upset with me. I am trying one last-ditch effort to try to understand why you want to spend your future the way you do. You don't have a choice of dying and getting buried, and that's the end of it. Your soul and spirit still lives. Only your dead shell/carcass will be in the Earth. The rest of you will be alive and will go to one of two places. So quit thinking there is a choice about that. You're not going to just die and that's that. Why do you not want God in your life? Why don't you want to have eternity to look forward to. That eternity will be a happy one! Instead you will risk having an eternity, but it won't be the one you're looking forward to. Everyone just isn't getting the message and time is ticking away. You remember when God had to kill every firstborn of Egypt during Moses' and the Pharaoh's dispute about letting the Hebrew's go and be free from slavery? Do you remember that, Al? So all of those firstborn had to die to persuade Pharaoh to finally free the Hebrews slaves. And it did the trick, when nothing else would.
Now, do you remember when King Herod heard of Jesus' birth and put out an order to kill every male child under 2 years old? This was because Jesus was thought to be a new king being born to the Jewish people. Okay Alwight. God sent the angel of death to the Egyptian and Hebrews both. He had His reasons.
Alwight, do you know that it is nearly impossible to separate adults, teens, children, and babies in any town or community. So if someone attacks that town, some babies will die. Maybe not all. You've got to understand that God is looking out for the babies' sakes also. They get another chance at life at a different time. So will adults. See Rev. 20:5 KJV. So Al, do not feel troubled that babies are sometimes casualties of war, etc. Babies die in car crashes too. Often another adult's fault. It happens. When you're a baby, and you die, you never know what hit you. It happens that fast often. So, do not blame God for babies dying and how could He do this? Why question your Maker. He KNOWS what He's doing. I'm writing this to you because you don't know why God lets babies die. Now you know. You should really rethink your future. If you are worried that God might not love you because you are a sinner and can't quit, hesitate no longer. He loves you regardless and you'll find that out. Who will save you if you won't save yourself? I just can't believe that someone as smart as you doesn't know what the best thing to do is. Children are most welcome in Heaven. So are teens and adults. I hope you won't find my post offensive in any way. I'm just trying to help. I REALLY AM!! Okay, you mull it all over. It really is time to act now. This is not the time to be stubborn. All you have to do is ask Jesus to come into your heart. It's that simple, Al. Can you be that humble? I hope so, somehow!
Warmest Regards And Cheerio!!
Michael
:angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :cloud9:
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I'm already saved, I'm not selfishly preoccupied with a Santa Clause concept of heaven by permission of a deity created largly in the image of man.
God knows my heart, I have never blasphemed God, I am not a book worshiper, calling that divine which is wholly human.
The Urantia revelation that Christ Michael sent, that does NOT claim to be written by God, is only 60 years old and growing as proud Christianity is dyeing from stubborn pride.
alwight
New member
Hi Michael,
Firstly I'm very reluctant to try to argue against your beliefs because I sense that they are very important to you and I don't want to be responsible for causing you any worry. Don't read on if you think that might happen.
I am an agnostic/atheist because I don't believe in any god based on any evidence I know. I don't know that no god exists I simply have no belief in any and that in all probability any existing god is unknowable anyway.
I haven't chosen to somehow "not want" your particular God in my life, but my conclusion is that your God probably doesn't exist. I have no interest in pretending otherwise to perhaps make me feel good which would be a delusion and untrue.
Clearly then I am rather sure that we only exist in any form while our physical bodies have life, I see no good reason to suppose it's otherwise. If your God wants me to know otherwise then so far at least I am apparently meant to remain in ignorance, if He wants that to change then I have no objection to the truth.
There are at least two parts to this. Firstly I fear any eternity of being me without any hope of escape, if I couldn't even die my way out. An eternal life however good it may be for the first few billion years is actually going to be a horrible idea at some point, if in fact it isn't already.
After that, if your God has arranged for, and is content with the particular fiery arrangements for reprobates believed by many Christians then I didn't ask to even be here and have no interest in being in either afterlife establishment for a minute let alone an eternity. I'd want no part in condoning such an awful thing cooked up by a tyrant god.
Michael, although ancient stories my sometimes be based on real world events the above is simply a story told around the camp fire to ancient middle eastern goat herders. There is no physical evidence I'm aware of to even suppose that the Israelites have ever featured in ancient Egypt, it's a biblical myth.
There were floods, petulance, plagues and diseases in the past too.
Ancient scripture was from a time when such cruelty was common, God probably didn't send any "angel of death" but I wouldn't put such a thing past a despotic tyrannical human ruler.
Michael I can assure you that I don't blame any god for when bad things happen to innocent people. Good and bad things happen to all kinds of people because we clearly live in a natural world where such things are to be expected.
I at least have no reason to try to justify any godly actions because I don't think they were anything of the kind, just natural events not godly ones.
Bad things happening to good people is however imo a rather good reason not to believe in any loving caring involved deity at least.
I think I generally know what I am doing Michael but I have no faith that your God does, or even exists, let alone was the creator or who works in mysterious ways that we can't understand.
Humans telling me that despite appearances that there really is somehow a godly purpose behind untimely death and human misery, are the words of those who desperately want there to be a good godly reason to support their religious beliefs when in fact there is none. :nono:
There are many different religious beliefs around and if we assume that only one can be true then easily most believers are therefore deluded and wrong. My opinion is that in fact no religious belief is true but that humans have evolved to be innately religiously inclined creatures whether it's Ju-Ju-Up-Mountain or Islam or Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism or Paganism or Buddhism or Scientology or Mormonism or perhaps the Heaven Gate death cult.
lain: Humans, it seems, can also be sheep. :sheep:
Sorry if I'm being blunt with you Michael, I suspect you aren't getting the response you wanted.
6days
New member
Sorry... Its Peter. Paul wrote about it.
Acts 10:10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
Hedshaker
New member
Peoples taste in music, lyrics and art in general is about as subjective as it gets IMO. Hozier is pretty popular so must be doing something right.
I prefer the term sceptic Michael as it covers a broader spectrum.
I went to the Glastonbury festival of music and performing arts last month, which is kind of a big thing over here and difficult to get tickets. Anyhoo, I saw Florence and the Machine and a bunch of other top named artists. It was 5 nights sleeping in a tent and it was a bit gruelling but great fun and memorable.
I took my camcorder along to get some video footage, along with some time-lapse camera work, for posterity, and I've mixed some of my music in. It hasn't turned out too bad since I didn't have a lot of time for getting my head around Vegas Pro video editing software.
It's 15 minutes and 20 seconds. Check it out:
| Glastonbury Festival 2015 -The Good the Mad and the Trippy | |
Creation vs. Evolution
I'm undecided about evolution, but I'm also aware that there are more choices than Literal Genesis Creation or Evolution. There's also every chance that the Genesis account is not and was never meant to be an account of HOW everything got here, but is an exposition of (more) WHY everything is here, or of the significance that everything in creation has. Simplifying our choices and then dying on one hill or another has lead the Church into troubled waters ever since her inception.
I'm undecided about evolution, but I'm also aware that there are more choices than Literal Genesis Creation or Evolution. There's also every chance that the Genesis account is not and was never meant to be an account of HOW everything got here, but is an exposition of (more) WHY everything is here, or of the significance that everything in creation has. Simplifying our choices and then dying on one hill or another has lead the Church into troubled waters ever since her inception.
alwight4388383 said:
Dear alwight,
You're the best. Certainly you don't have to worry about saying anything to me because you are such an excellent friend and buddy!! I'll be okay with whatever you write. You're not DavisBJ.
alwight4388383 said:
Right alwight! You 'believe' there is no God, but that doesn't mean that there isn't One, which is fine. That's your belief. Have you read of people having out-of-body experiences when they were clinically dead and say they saw the Lord Jesus or long-dead loved ones? And they all seem to have seen a bright, beautiful, light, unlike the sunlight. Considering the experiences I've had, alwight, I can definitely assure you that there is a God. Oh, how I wish you could believe. I have this feeling that you don't want to believe because you might have to make changes in your life. You are fine already, so no changes needed. I can tell that you are a VERY LOVING human being. You definitely stand out as a beacon for others to see. Your love, care, concern, and understanding makes you on your way to Heaven instead of Hell. In Heaven, if you get eternal life with God, you get to explore the other planets and the Universe, and the galaxy, etc. You move tons faster (fly) because you have no earthly body (legs) to hinder your movement. You can fly nearly as fast as the speed of light.
alwight4388383 said:
But your conclusion could be wrong about God. You would not be pretending, nor be involved with any delusion. You can only believe in God through Faith (believing without seeing). Jesus said, 'Blessed are those who believe without seeing." They will have a greater reward.'
alwight4388383 said:
Do you know that our physical bodies are a marvelous creation?? From head to toe, man is awesomely made. With the nervous system, including capillaries, etc., it could encircle the diameter of the Earth twice. Do you really think that that just came into being by Mother Nature or do you think that it came by an incredibly wise and able God??
alwight4388383 said:
Didn't Jesus say, "In my Father's house are many mansions. If it were not so, I would tell you." Eternal Life will be so awesome, you will NEVER want it to end. You will LOVE it!! There will be a hope to escape Heaven. You can be sent to Hell, then. There are only two eternal lives to chose from. A soul and spirit does not die. God made them that way. A spirit is energy and light within your earthly body. When you pop out of your human body, you will be on your way to living a beautiful life, or an awful life {to put it mildly}. You mean you want to have neither? Not going to happen, Al. It's like, pick what you want.
alwight4388383 said:
It is written in Rev. 20:14 KJV, it says that 'death and hell shall deliver up those who are in them and they will be judged according to their works' {being good and kind, considerate, loving Jesus and accepting Him as your Lord and Savior}. And then, death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire {our Sun}. That means there will be no more dying and being buried in the ground, or being cremated, or being in Hell. If God wants you to believe in Him and love Him, you probably would have by now. But in your life, you want to reject Him, so I do suppose that you will not make it to Heaven this time around.
alwight4388383 said:
This is not a camp fire story. It is the history passed down from generation to generation. Just as we now, as human beings, pass down our history in our Books or around a camp fire. The Lord helped John of Patmos to write a book. He said, 'What you see, write down in a book...' So Jesus dictated to John what to write. He put it in the hearts of certain prophets that He'd spoken to, which they wrote as a book. Thus we have the complete books, which are written of in the Bible... the bestselling book of ALL TIME!!
alwight4388383 said:
God is hardly a tyrannical ruler and you should be careful how you speak about God. Don't heap trouble upon yourself and risk incurring the wrath of God, despite that you don't believe He exists. Yes, good things and bad things happen to all people, but those who love God experience some pretty good things. They love it! The reason you don't believe is probably because you don't want to know Him. You push Him away. In the end, He may push you away. You won't like it, trust me.
alwight4388383 said:I think I generally know what I am doing Michael but I have no faith that your God does, or even exists, let alone was the creator or who works in mysterious ways that we can't understand.
Humans telling me that despite appearances that there really is somehow a godly purpose behind untimely death and human misery, are the words of those who desperately want there to be a good godly reason to support their religious beliefs when in fact there is none. :nono:
There are many different religious beliefs around and if we assume that only one can be true then easily most believers are therefore deluded and wrong. My opinion is that in fact no religious belief is true but that humans have evolved to be innately religiously inclined creatures whether it's Ju-Ju-Up-Mountain or Islam or Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism or Paganism or Buddhism or Scientology or Mormonism or perhaps the Heaven Gate death cult.
Humans, it seems, can also be sheep. :sheep:
Sorry if I'm being blunt with you Michael, I suspect you aren't getting the response you wanted.
You're very welcome to be blunt, Al. I'm fine with it. I care about you, so I doubt very much that you are trying to hurt me. You might notice how I did not reply to the last few of your paragraphs. I would hate to lose this all. Will chat in a bit.
Tons Of Love Coming Your Way, Alwight!!
Michael
:thumb: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:
Dear Caino,
If you follow after and believe in the Urantia Book, you are NOT saved. You are teetering on Jesus telling you to "Get thee behind me, Satan!"
You believe in the Urantia Book and what it in it, so yes, you have told lies about God, thus blasphemy. You just don't even know what you are doing. I've read part of your Urantia Pages/Book, and you are out of your mind, to be honest.
It is growing just like any perverse religion creeps up. Jesus will return so soon, that He will tell you all what to do with your Urantia revelation. You are just deluded, Caino, and I am really sorry about that. You rely on lofty words instead of basic words that all mankind can understand. But I understand your lofty words, and that is why I expose them. I do feel sorry for you, but there are false religions. I lump your religion in a space all alone. It is devious. So it Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, etc. They are ALL false religions developed by ungodly writers. "Whoever wrote the Qur'an used fancy words just like your Urantia Book. But neither tells you to accept Jesus into your hearts or that the Holy Ghost is the Comforter, and can be sent by God to help mankind. Does it tell of a virgin birth by Mary, etc.?
Michael
:angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:
alwight
New member
Let's just say I don't believe in gods generally rather than I have any specific godly disbeliefs.
You seem to be talking about near death experiences, the truly dead rather tend to stay dead.
Some people claim to have seen ET aliens.
Let's just agree that eternal agony is not commensurate with anything bad I may have done.
Then it would take years to get to the nearest stars and then what? I hope the in-flight entertainment is good.
Nope, sorry but I can't make myself believe but I do believe that you could be wrong.
The evidence suggests that life has been evolving for billions of years, I don't see any evidence of a supernatural creation just a few years ago.
Well, what I think will happen is that it will be just as it was before I existed. It didn't bother me then and there were no worries about passing the time flying between stars.
The only thing I reject Michael is other people's fantasy versions of their gods. I would be delighted to be acquainted with any real god/creator.
Sorry but I simply don't accept that your beliefs and the Bible are historically factual and are probably mainly religious fantasy.
I really don't fear what I don't think exists Michael, believe me.
lain:
Dear 6days,
Sounds wonderful that you found it. Yes, I do know it was Peter. I do believe you've hit the gold mine, sir!! Thanks so very much. Now I don't have to forfeit the ham that's in the freezer. Or the bacon that is thawing out in the frig. Kudos!!
May God Brighten Your Weekend!!
Michael
:cloud9: :cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel:
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