Creation vs. Evolution

[gcthomas]

http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/ancient/dinosaur/

Come on Daniel. Didn't you read that article with anything but a desire for it to be true?

It is to silly to rebut in detail, but here is a random one :

"The art below is from the Mesopotamian cylinder seal of Uruk, an artifact currently housed at the Louvre. The animal on the right is an artist’s conception from a skeleton of an*Apatosaurus.[http://www]There are many striking similarities between these two depictions. The legs and feet on the artifact clearly fit the sauropods better than any other type of animal.*"

Look at the picture. Look at the back legs - they have a horse's shape, with the backwards 'knee' and a narrow hoof instead of the dino's forward knee and wide toed feet.

It is unsupported, hopeful nonsense.

 

[User Name]

Charon is, you might be interested to hear, close enough to Pluto that they both orbit a point (the barycentre) between the two, so that Pluto is occasionally referred to as a double (dwarf) planet.

This is a barycentric view of the Pluto–Charon system as seen by New Horizons:

The small white dot in the middle represents the barycenter.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barycenter

 

[Daniel1611]

This is a barycentric view of the Pluto–Charon system as seen by New Horizons:

The small white dot in the middle represents the barycenter.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barycenter

Well if that doesn't prove something...a pixelated blob. Lol!

 

[noguru]

Well if that doesn't prove something...a pixelated blob. Lol!

Everything I have seen from you is pixelated. So according to your logic I can just assume you do not exist.

 

[Daniel1611]

Everything I have seen from you is pixelated. So according to your logic I can just assume you do not exist.

A debate over my existence would be more philosophical than scientific

 

[noguru]

A debate over my existence would be more philosophical than scientific

Do you care to elaborate on the distinction you are promoting here?

 

[Daniel1611]

Do you care to elaborate on the distinction you are promoting here?

It was more of a joke. I.e. some philosophers would suggest that you can't prove that the chair you're sitting in exists.

 

[MichaelCadry]

No, I just mentioned it as an indicator of where I happen to be right now. But yes, I like it very much, as do a whole lot of people from across the world.

I am sure there are good sushi places in Phoenix. And any decent supermarket will probably have it for sale. Get some, and have someone show you how to eat it. If you find you like it then I can take you to a place here in Japan where we order Tuna (not sushi, and not filets, but just the head of the Tuna). I will show you how to rip into the head of the tuna where there is a surprising amount of meat, and how to eat some gelatinous, but nutritious and not bad tasting, material behind the tuna’s eyes.

Hi DavisBJ,

I bet it MUST be good because it has such a high success rate, with many restaurants just specializing in sushi! I've never had any and I guess I need someone to help me learn how to eat it. Do you dip it in soy sauce, or horseradish sauce, or sweet and sour sauce? Yes, our supermarket has it, at a good price also. I will try to get the freshest they have. It's something that I should try soon, I believe. I must be missing out on something, eh??

Which means, as already mentioned a few posts ago, that one of the themes (old earth) you vigorously defended when you started this thread, and which you repeatedly asserted was revealed to you, must have been bunkum nonsense. I am pretty sure 6days felt it was baloney the moment he saw you say it, and set out to disabuse you of that God-given heresy.

The word “can” refers to the future, whereas the word “created” refers to the past. Quite a trickster God, that “can created” things.

Nope, since I don’t think “He” has ever been real.

God thinks we are incompetent to determine for ourselves what pattern of work and rest works well?

If God never stepped in, there would be many people working 7 days a week. I already know of some who do. But they own the business. If you want more details, let me know. They own an Arab meat market and store, and the owner butchers the meat that they sell, mostly beef and lamb. I get both from them. The butcher works 7 days a week and keeps his store open 365 days of the year, I believe. I don't think he even closes for Ramadan. He gets no day of rest.

You do know that even though you initiated this thread, that does not impose an obligation on you to personally respond to every post?

Davis, that's one part that I hope for. I don't want to answer any posts unless they are addressed to me. Sometimes, I do say something. It is something I've learned though. For a while there, I was answering all the posts. So I understand how you feel.

Thanks for sharing your feelings and your insights, DavisBJ. You live in Japan, eh? That's wonderful!! You sure seem like you're an American. Well, that's cool! Hope to hear from you soon.

Tons of Love Coming Your Way!!

Michael
:thumb: :wave2: :cloud9: :angel: :guitar:
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[MichaelCadry]

Get Tyson’s book.

Twice the diameter, which means 8 times the volume.

There probably would have been a fifth rocky planet between Mars and Jupiter, but something prevented that, and left the asteroid belt instead.

Planets are “held together” by gravity. Lots of gas means lots of mass means lots of gravity.

Rainbows are totally different animals than rings composed of dust particles.

Dear DavisBJ,

Twice the diameter means 8 time the volume. I guess. Also, the gases must be quite dense to mean a lot of mass for gravity to act upon. I can understand that, seeing our Sun uses the same premise.

Now, I know rainbows are different, but I thought that the rings around Saturn were ice crystals? No? Just dirt particles?

Actually, it is what you would expect to see if a solar system formed from a massive rotating cloud of gas and dust.

Nope, I don’t agree. Mother Nature is all that is needed.

Now, I've been reassured by the Lord that there is No MOTHER nature. The Lord says that He and his angels and servants do the work attributed to Mother Nature. That means, it takes an angel, with God's help, to produce a tornado, rain, lightning, thunder, snow, earthquake, flood, etc. That is all done by His directive. Same thing as His guidance in orchestrating all of life's intricately designed necessities, like a bird laying an egg, a flower blooming, God's inflection on the egg's insides become a chick. All of it is done by Him, the Master Chemist, and Biologist, etc. You'll find out someday that God has many workers who make sure His word is carried out. When He can speak to the Earth to bring forth a man or form a man out of the ground, He is a Great Chemist, a Great Biologist, etc. A man's nervous system can circle the Earth twice. The length of nerves and capillaries, etc. It's a long distance. God has His Hand in every genome changing, neutron, DNA, gene, RNA, electron, all of it is directed by Him and landscaped according to His Liking. There is no Mother Nature. There is Father God!!

The design of our solar system is as distantly a product of the big bang as your love of guitar music is a product of your great-great-great … great-grandpa’s love of tribal drums.

Whoa, don’t push your defiance of natural laws over to my side of the court. We are the ones who don’t believe in “ala kazam, zap, touch a pile of mud called Adam and it comes alive” scenarios. That kind of magic is your shtick.

By convention, moons are significantly smaller than their host planets. If they were close to the size of the planet, they would be considered some kind of binary planet system.

Pluto is more ice than rock. And a piece of dust could serve as a moon going around a marble if they were far enough away from other objects.

Remember, good friends don’t let friends drive drunk. I will apply that same philosophy to your respect for accurate science as to the rules of the road. I may have to take away your scientific keys when you get to acting irresponsible.

You don't know my God, Davis, and you should at your age. But maybe it just wasn't for you. But it will be for many other people. So you will find out when He returns soon. You'll see. I'm not mistaken on that. God might be elusive, but that's because He only wants those who truly love Him for Himself. Not just because they want to 'get' things from Him, etc. That's why He stays hidden. I hardly need your keys for science. Okay, will get going!!

Much Love And Many Blessings,

Michael
:thumb: :wave2: :angrymob: :angel: :cloud9:
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[DavisBJ]

Dear DavisBJ,

I know rainbows are different, but I thought that the rings around Saturn were ice crystals? No? Just dirt particles?

Actually, some of both, but primarily ice. Definitely not water droplets like in rainbows.

Now, I've been reassured by the Lord that there is No MOTHER nature. The Lord says that He and his angels and servants do the work attributed to Mother Nature.

You were likely given that information by the same lying spirit that you admitted must have deceived you for 4 decades about a series of Adam and Eve creations and extinctions. You really should vet your sources.

That means, it takes an angel, with God's help, to produce a tornado, rain, lightning, thunder, snow, earthquake, flood, etc.

What a wimpy, inefficient God you worship. I guess He is incapable of setting things up so that they run without Him having to micromanage every detail. You would do well to send Him packing.

God has His Hand in every genome changing, neutron, DNA, gene, RNA, electron, all of it is directed by Him and landscaped according to His Liking.

If that is true, then I have many hundreds of papers describing studies where those very things were put under a microscope and studied, until we figured out the rules that govern them. Instead of Him being the master, we are the masters and have learned how to control what you say is the provenance of your God. We make computers, we have learned to fly higher and faster than the birds, we have visited the moon, we have conquered diseases, and on and on. By your own description, your God IS Mother Nature.

You don't know my God, Davis, and you should at your age.

I know Him in the same way I know Peter Pan and balrogs and Easter Bunnies.

So you will find out when He returns soon. You'll see. I'm not mistaken on that.

Would you like to know how many times, in the first thousand posts in this thread, you argued that you weren’t mistaken about multiple Adam and Eves?

He only wants those who truly love Him for Himself.

That’s the criteria? Not whether one is an honest and upright, decent person, who really cares for others? Just those who kiss up to your God? I most definitely do not want to have any more to do with that kind of God than I do with real people who are fanatically self-centered.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Actually, some of both, but primarily ice. Definitely not water droplets like in rainbows.

Well, first you say particles, and now you want to say ice crystals because I tell you. How am I supposed to believe you when you change your story so easily?

You were likely given that information by the same lying spirit that you admitted must have deceived you for 4 decades about a series of Adam and Eve creations and extinctions. You really should vet your sources.

No, I wasn't given that info by a lying spirit. Lying spirits don't happen that often for a true prophet.

What a wimpy, inefficient God you worship. I guess He is incapable of setting things up so that they run without Him having to micromanage every detail. You would do well to send Him packing.

God is not wimpy or inefficient, and you should be wary to say so. God has servants, and angels who do the work for Him in His place when He cannot be there personally.

If that is true, then I have many hundreds of papers describing studies where those very things were put under a microscope and studied, until we figured out the rules that govern them. Instead of Him being the master, we are the masters and have learned how to control what you say is the provenance of your God. We make computers, we have learned to fly higher and faster than the birds, we have visited the moon, we have conquered diseases, and on and on. By your own description, your God IS Mother Nature.

I know Him in the same way I know Peter Pan and balrogs and Easter Bunnies.

So, you've become so high-minded as you think you've done all of these things without God's help? Oh, you are the masters, eh? And you think you have created things that fly faster than the birds. You only learned how to fly a helicopter by studying the way in which hummingbirds fly, and if God had not created the hummingbird, we would not probably have helicopters. You've visited the moon and so you think that's all-consuming? God has visited galaxies and moons your eyes may never see. God has given to man to be able to learn how to control some diseases.

Would you like to know how many times, in the first thousand posts in this thread, you argued that you weren’t mistaken about multiple Adam and Eves?

How long are you going to ride that gravy train, eh? Maybe I was right in the first place. My beliefs are what I choose, just like you. We'll only find out when we face our Maker, right? You will, Davis, you'll see.

That’s the criteria? Not whether one is an honest and upright, decent person, who really cares for others? Just those who kiss up to your God? I most definitely do not want to have any more to do with that kind of God than I do with real people who are fanatically self-centered.

Well now, you never told me that you were an honest and upright, decent person, who really cares for others! Well, that changes a lot, so it's in your favor. I must have had you pegged wrong. No one kisses up to God that I know of. It would be asinine. He knows everything in your heart and your thoughts, you cannot lie to Him and expect Him not to be aware of it. Hey Davis, are you a teacher by any chance? Let me know ASAP. Will chat with you soon buddy and don't let anything get you down.

May You Listen To The Small Voice Whispering In Your Heart,

Michael

:thumb: :wave2: :angrymob: :angel:
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[DavisBJ]

Dear Michael,

I note the lack of the nominal “Dear DavisBJ” that you usually preface your posts with. Is that an ominous sign?

Well, first you say particles, and now you want to say ice crystals because I tell you. How am I supposed to believe you when you change your story so easily?

Better yet, go to primary sources. That’s what I try to do.

No, I wasn't given that info by a lying spirit.

If that "many previous creations and extinctions" idea did not come from a false source, then I am left to conclude you think it must have come from a credible source. Which then means you have just come out in opposition (yet once again) to one of the tenets held by the YEC community – that creation was a recent event that happened shortly before the creation of the Biblical Adam.

Have you told 6 days that your brief sojourn as a YEC has come to an end, and you again think there was enough time for multiple creations and extinctions?

God has servants, and angels who do the work for Him in His place when He cannot be there personally.

Compare that with a typical human engineer that designs things that run completely unattended for extended amounts of time. You say your God hasn’t mastered that level of control over creation yet?

You only learned how to fly a helicopter by studying the way in which hummingbirds fly, and if God had not created the hummingbird, we would not probably have helicopters.

Observing hummingbirds may have provided some insight and inspiration for the invention of helicopters, but I seriously doubt that it was a crucial item. Do you think aeronautical engineers are so lacking in understanding that they can only copy what they have already seen in nature?

God has visited galaxies and moons your eyes may never see.

Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford never reported running into God on their journeys to faraway planets. But they did find a smart little guy named Yoda. Is that who you are thinking of?

How long are you going to ride that gravy train, eh? Maybe I was right in the first place.

6 days, you have a Benedict Arnold in the YEC ranks. It’s time for an intervention. (Apologies to Alwight and gct – who may think of Benedict Arnold as a good guy. In the US, he was a kinda bad guy.)

Well now, you never told me that you were an honest and upright, decent person, who really cares for others! Well, that changes a lot, so it's in your favor. I must have had you pegged wrong.

I didn’t say I was speaking of myself. I was noting the criteria I enumerated got no mention from you as counting for something in the afterlife.

God ... knows everything in your heart and your thoughts, you cannot lie to Him and expect Him not to be aware of it.

I would hope so. Several times lately I have used that exact point - God cannot be lied to – to show why it would not work for me to pretend I actually believed. Maybe that is really starting to register with you now.

Hey Davis, are you a teacher by any chance?

Right now, no. Have been, several times in my life.

Listen to the Small Voice Whispering In Your Heart

OK, getting my stethoscope. “Thumpy thump, Thumpy thump” What now?

 

[alwight]

6 days, you have a Benedict Arnold in the YEC ranks. It’s time for an intervention. (Apologies to Alwight and gct – who may think of Benedict Arnold as a good guy. In the US, he was a kinda bad guy.)

I like my Arnolds eggs benedict.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Michael,

I note the lack of the nominal “Dear DavisBJ” that you usually preface your posts with. Is that an ominous sign?

It was a slip, of course DavisBJ.

Better yet, go to primary sources. That’s what I try to do.

If that "many previous creations and extinctions" idea did not come from a false source, then I am left to conclude you think it must have come from a credible source. Which then means you have just come out in opposition (yet once again) to one of the tenets held by the YEC community – that creation was a recent event that happened shortly before the creation of the Biblical Adam.

I am not in opposition to YEC beliefs. I believe in them, you booper! You twist my words to make them advantageous to you.

Have you told 6 days that your brief sojourn as a YEC has come to an end, and you again think there was enough time for multiple creations and extinctions?

I don't need to tell 6days that because my beliefs as a YEC still stand.

Compare that with a typical human engineer that designs things that run completely unattended for extended amounts of time. You say your God hasn’t mastered that level of control over creation yet?

DavisBJ, No I didn't say any such thing. You manipulate words as you love to do. You will wish you never soon enough.

Observing hummingbirds may have provided some insight and inspiration for the invention of helicopters, but I seriously doubt that it was a crucial item. Do you think aeronautical engineers are so lacking in understanding that they can only copy what they have already seen in nature?

I don't say nearly as much as you claim that I have, DavisBJ. Who are you kidding? Man got the idea just from watching and studying hummingbirds! It's common knowledge.

Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford never reported running into God on their journeys to faraway planets. But they did find a smart little guy named Yoda. Is that who you are thinking of?

Sounds pretty childish to me, DavisBJ. I can't wait to see how God likes your interpretation. He knows the day will come when you cease from laughing.

6 days, you have a Benedict Arnold in the YEC ranks. It’s time for an intervention. (Apologies to Alwight and gct – who may think of Benedict Arnold as a good guy. In the US, he was a kinda bad guy.)

6days has no Benedict Arnold. You are just trying to make waves. I think mostly that you are jealous of Alwight and gct having a good relationship with me. Benedict Arnold was a traitor, I believe, which I am not. I am a longstanding friend, not like you. I've tried to be friends with you, but you keep attacking me. Who knows where you are coming from?

I didn’t say I was speaking of myself. I was noting the criteria I enumerated got no mention from you as counting for something in the afterlife.

I would hope so. Several times lately I have used that exact point - God cannot be lied to – to show why it would not work for me to pretend I actually believed. Maybe that is really starting to register with you now.

You couldn't pretend you believe. And what I was referring to was for you to have a complete reversal from atheism. To start loving God and learn about how to live as He directs us to. You know that certainly, don't you Davis?

Right now, no. Have been, several times in my life.

OK, getting my stethoscope. “Thumpy thump, Thumpy thump” What now?

Really, what more can we expect from you as if this weren't enough. It's too bad that you let Satan twist my words around into lies. You will make a good cadet for him.

God Be With You Instead,

Michael

:angrymob: :cloud9: :angel: :angel:

 

[noguru]

It was more of a joke. I.e. some philosophers would suggest that you can't prove that the chair you're sitting in exists.

Yes, and some philosophers debate whether a tree falling in the forest makes any noise without a person to hear it. It is an exercise in epistemology. Let's not make it an exercise in futility.

 

[MichaelCadry]

I like my Arnolds eggs benedict.

Dear alwight,

I love Eggs Benedict. I can make it, but it takes a bit of work if you make your own homemade Hollandaise sauce. Alwight, don't believe that stuff that Davis says. He just twists my words around to suit himself. I have no need to twist ANYONE'S words around. And I'm far from being a traitor (Re: Benedict Arnold). I would like to be friend's with DavisBJ, but every time I let my guard down and try to be friends, he dumps on me. I can't have that happening. That would kind of dumb on my part. I do hope he changes!

So how was your day today, Al? What did you do? I put on a Sirloin Tip Roast in the Slow Cooker. It barely fit in the pan. It was huge. Looks like roast for a few days now. And no potatoes. Have to make something on the side.

Well Al, I have a very big heart and plenty of room in there for everyone. Even DavisBJ. But I'm not going to be a doormat either. Life can be fun, if you like. Or miserable. I choose fun and loving!! When life lasts forever, that's the best way to live it... happily!! Oh well, will get goin' 4 now.

Best Wishes!!

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:
​

 

[alwight]

Dear alwight,

I love Eggs Benedict. I can make it, but it takes a bit of work if you make your own homemade Hollandaise sauce. Alwight, don't believe that stuff that Davis says. He just twists my words around to suit himself. I have no need to twist ANYONE'S words around. And I'm far from being a traitor (Re: Benedict Arnold). I would like to be friend's with DavisBJ, but every time I let my guard down and try to be friends, he dumps on me. I can't have that happening. That would kind of dumb on my part. I do hope he changes!

So how was your day today, Al? What did you do? I put on a Sirloin Tip Roast in the Slow Cooker. It barely fit in the pan. It was huge. Looks like roast for a few days now. And no potatoes. Have to make something on the side.

Well Al, I have a very big heart and plenty of room in there for everyone. Even DavisBJ. But I'm not going to be a doormat either. Life can be fun, if you like. Or miserable. I choose fun and loving!! When life lasts forever, that's the best way to live it... happily!! Oh well, will get goin' 4 now.

Best Wishes!!

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:
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Hi Michael,
Like me Davis doesn't share your simple unquestioning belief perhaps because a testable reality is rather more compelling and important to us than an adherence to an ancient scripture.
I know you want to believe along with the YECs, but I suggest that they are rather more adept than you, or should that be devious(?), at deflecting any genuine science that rather seems to contradict and make a nonsense of such beliefs. YECs have many well funded organisations which attempt to provide creationist spin, eye candy and anti-science for them, and 6days certainly doesn't shy away from trotting it out.

I presume you don't actually eat all the food you cook? :chew:
History is littered with turncoats and traitors but most are somewhat hyped up by the side that feels aggrieved perhaps, heroes and villains.

I'm sure that Davis is just poking a bit of fun at your expense Michael, he isn't trying to twist anything around. If you really wanted to honestly try to understand evidence based science then I'm sure he would be delighted to help, but the truth is probably that you don't, right? :think:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Michael,
Like me Davis doesn't share your simple unquestioning belief perhaps because a testable reality is rather more compelling and important to us than an adherence to an ancient scripture.

Dear Alwight,
My belief is unquestioning, because I've already asked all of the questions I need to about it before embracing it fully. My beliefs are based upon time-tested experiences of descendants undergoing experiences with and by My God. I find the study of my scriptures to be more compelling than anything science has to offer. You ought to study Revelation or Daniel. They are very interesting and important. And all of the writings culminate with the appearance of A Savior called Jesus; I'm sure you've heard of Him, Al. There are millions who believe the way I do for a good reason. It makes absolute extraordinary, intriguing sense. The scripture is ancient because it has lasted through time because of it's truth and longevity. You do know that I've written a book which is in it's Seventh Edition right now, Alwight. I'm not just a dummy about everything.

I know you want to believe along with the YECs, but I suggest that they are rather more adept than you, or should that be devious(?), at deflecting any genuine science that rather seems to contradict and make a nonsense of such beliefs. YECs have many well funded organisations which attempt to provide creationist spin, eye candy and anti-science for them, and 6days certainly doesn't shy away from trotting it out.

I never divvied up that I was a YEC or an OEC or an IOU, whatever. I'm just a disciple of Christ. What they call Christian. Most any Christian that you would question would have no idea about whether they were OEC or YEC. It turned out I was more in the YEC after all. I talked with 6days about it. It helped, for sure.

I presume you don't actually eat all the food you cook? :chew:
History is littered with turncoats and traitors but most are somewhat hyped up by the side that feels aggrieved perhaps, heroes and villains.

No, I have help eating the food. Whatever we can't eat, I can freeze for another meal some other time. Usually we can eat what I make within 1 to 3 days.

I'm sure that Davis is just poking a bit of fun at your expense Michael, he isn't trying to twist anything around. If you really wanted to honestly try to understand evidence based science then I'm sure he would be delighted to help, but the truth is probably that you don't, right? :think:

Al, I already understand evidence-based science. Didn't anyone know that. Oh, well it must have got lost in all of the refuse. There are just certain bits of science that I do not agree with. Those that contradict with the religious beliefs that I have. Science says the Universe is whatever years old. I don't believe it, and think it isn't as old. Same with the planet Earth. Astronomical distances and ages are ridiculous to me. I also do not agree with the way we test things for age. I don't trust the dating methods. We don't seem to have any viable ways to test the ages of certain relics and phenomena. But man wants to know, so science tries to give him an answer. So they reach into a grab bag, quite often, just to give some kind of response, whether true or not. There's no one to prove otherwise, for no one wants to mess with things that 'aged.' Ah, no one understands me. But I'm a trooper!!

You're The Best, Alwight,

Michael

:cloud9: :cloud9: :angel: :angel: :guitar:
​

 

[rstrats]

MichaelCadry,
re: "I love Eggs Benedict."

As a Christian - who I assume wants to obey the supreme being's wishes - what do you substitute for the pork that is usually used in eggs benedict?

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear noguru,

Hey Buddy!! Just saw that you posted here and thought I'd give you a holler. How are YOU DOING??!!! Seems like it's been a while. How's things going in your life these days? It's FINALLY FRIDAY!! Time to take it easy for a couple days. Do you got a lot to do this weekend? Who is the babe in your avatar? I got a Dental appt. today at 2pm. I'm not looking forward to it. Will be glad to get it over with. Well, will get going for now and will write to you soon.

Much Love, In Jesus Christ!!

Michael

:angel: :angel: :cloud9: :cloud9: :guitar:
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