Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

Apple7 · Apr 30, 2018

TrevorL said:
Greetings again Apple7, I have never examined the different NT source texts. I do not think that there is much difference in the OT sources for KJV and other modern translations, but you may have more knowledge of this, Dead Sea Scrolls etc. I do not use the KJV exclusively, but read a chapter in the morning from an Interlinear RV/KJV. At our meeting I mainly read from a NASB Study Bible, but usually also have my old KJV Bible open to the chapter that our speaker is expounding.

Your previous googled polemic of 1 John 5.7 is in the KJV....hardly inconsequential, according to your previous argument...but, now, you are in defense mode...

TrevorL said:
In Psalm 110:1 it is speaking about where Jesus is now seated, refer Hebrews 1:13-14, 10:11-14.

The Book of Hebrews uses the same term for Yahweh as it does for Jesus.

Therefore, they are each the same God.

Study up, Trev...

TrevorL said:
As there is no Trinity, only One God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then your claims are not valid. You are imposing your view of the Trinity on these verses. I did not pick out any verses, but selected ALL the verses that you included on your list. This does not explain Psalm 110:1.

The Trinity is indeed a fact.

Psalm 110 proves this out.

TrevorL said:
Having covered the aspect of Jesus seated at the right hand of God, and that this is not referring to the Holy Spirit, another aspect where Psalm 110:1 is considered is the following which shows that Jesus is David's Lord, the Son of God, not God the Son:
Matthew 22:41–45 (KJV): 41 hile the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
We need to bow before the Son of God, giving glory to God the Father Philippians 2:9-11.

Kind regards
Trevor

You have yet to scripturally demonstrate that The Right Hand of God is anything other than The Holy Spirit.

When can we expect to see more than sheer un-referenced denial from you, Trev...?

TrevorL · May 1, 2018

Greetings again Apple7,

Apple7 said:
Your previous googled polemic of 1 John 5.7 is in the KJV....hardly inconsequential, according to your previous argument...but, now, you are in defense mode...

I simply stated what Bible(s) I use. I have many more for reference. I mentioned the KJV and the reason why I mentioned 1 John 5:7 is that I do not agree with this. I also mentioned Exodus 3:14 and do not endorse the KJV of this verse either.

The Book of Hebrews uses the same term for Yahweh as it does for Jesus.
Therefore, they are each the same God. Study up, Trev...

Even the KJV tries to distinguish between LORD and Lord when quoting Psalm 110:1, for example in Acts 2:34 (KJV).

The Trinity is indeed a fact. Psalm 110 proves this out.

I am still waiting for proof from Psalm 110:1.

You have yet to scripturally demonstrate that The Right Hand of God is anything other than The Holy Spirit. When can we expect to see more than sheer un-referenced denial from you, Trev...?

Please reconsider Hebrews 1:13-14, 10:11-14 and these teach that the right hand of Yahweh in Psalm 110:1 has reference to where Jesus is seated.

Possibly you may need a few more references that teach that Jesus is seated at the right hand of God.
Ephesians 1:17–20 (KJV): 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Colossians 3:1 (KJV): If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

Apple7 · May 1, 2018

TrevorL said:
Greetings again Apple7, I simply stated what Bible(s) I use. I have many more for reference.

Why not use a translation rendered by Trinity-deniers, like yourself?

Can't find one?

TrevorL said:
I mentioned the KJV and the reason why I mentioned 1 John 5:7 is that I do not agree with this.

And yet....the KJV contains it....and you continue to use the KJV as truth...

TrevorL said:
I also mentioned Exodus 3:14 and do not endorse the KJV of this verse either.

Why?

TrevorL said:
Even the KJV tries to distinguish between LORD and Lord when quoting Psalm 110:1, for example in Acts 2:34 (KJV).

Its the same word in the Greek.

TrevorL said:
I am still waiting for proof from Psalm 110:1. Please reconsider Hebrews 1:13-14, 10:11-14 and these teach that the right hand of Yahweh in Psalm 110:1 has reference to where Jesus is seated.

Psalm 110.5

It's called context, Trev....

We have already been over this before with you.....but, repetition helps in these situations...

TrevorL said:
Possibly you may need a few more references that teach that Jesus is seated at the right hand of God.
Ephesians 1:17–20 (KJV): 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Colossians 3:1 (KJV): If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

The Hand of Yahweh is the Holy Spirit (Eze 3.14; 8.3; 37.1).

Study up...

TrevorL · May 2, 2018

Greetings again Apple7,

Apple7 said:
Why not use a translation rendered by Trinity-deniers, like yourself? Can't find one? And yet....the KJV contains it....and you continue to use the KJV as truth... Why?

I have already stated that I use the KJV with caution and compare it with other translations. The way I would use the KJV and other translations could be clarified in the following. Most translations and commentators accept the present tense “I am that I am”, but notice in the margin of the RV (or ASV) and RSV, an alternative is given “I will be that I will be” or “I will be what I will be”, showing that some modern scholars suggest this alternative reading. Although not popular it appears that this future tense is the correct translation. Not only modern scholars, Tyndale also translated this in the future tense.
Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.
Part of my decision in accepting the future tense, is that most translations translate the same word “Ehyeh” in Exodus 3:12 as “I will be”. This sets the context that it is speaking of God’s purpose and future activity in delivering Israel out of Egypt. Also the Yahweh Name is strongly associated with this deliverance of Israel and bringing them into the land in Exodus 6:1-8. So as you claim to have skills in the original languages, including Hebrew, what is your opinion of these verses, and the translation “I AM” or “I will be”? Would you reject a non-Trinitarian scholar if he favoured “I will be” here, and would you reject Tyndale? I have not checked if Tyndale was a Trinitarian.

Its the same word in the Greek.

But it is not the same word in Psalm 110:1 in the Hebrew. Are you suggesting that the Greek overrides the Hebrew here? To support the Trinity would you say Yahweh said to Yahweh?

Psalm 110.5. It's called context, Trev.... We have already been over this before with you.....but, repetition helps in these situations... The Hand of Yahweh is the Holy Spirit (Eze 3.14; 8.3; 37.1). Study up...

As you are critical of my using the KJV, let us consider your translation:

Apple7 said:
A declaration of Yahweh (Father) to my Adonee (Son): Sit at My right hand (Holy Spirit), until I place Your enemies as Your footstool. Psalm 110.1

Firstly I suggest that not only Psalm 110:1 teaches that Jesus is now seated at the right hand of God the Father, but this is confirmed by Hebrews 1:13-14, 10:11-14, Ephesians 1:17–20 Colossians 3:1. These all teach that the right hand of Yahweh in Psalm 110:1 has reference to where Jesus is seated. Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit, in Trinitarian terms a person, is also seated at the right hand of God the Father? Is your picture of the right hand of God the Father, that it is Jesus immediately to the right, and then the Holy Spirit, or the other way around. Or is this like the James and John situation, and the Holy Spirit is now demoted to the left, but this would break your rule, that the right hand is ALWAYS the Holy Spirit?

Let us substitute the words suggested and call it Apple7’s Revised Bible:
Psalm 110:1 (Apple7’s RB):A declaration of Yahweh (God the Father) to my Adonee (God the Son): Sit at My right hand (God the Holy Spirit), until I place Your enemies as Your footstool.
This does not make sense to me, especially the God the Holy Spirit portion. Could you please adjust the above translation (and commentary) to make sense in this context? Please add words as necessary to make this one flowing sentence, Apple7's RB (Amplified).

Now I accept that in being on the right hand of God the Father, that Jesus has been exalted to a position of honour and power and authority, and Jesus sent the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, but I cannot accept your version of the Holy Spirit in Psalm 110:1.:
Acts 2:33 (KJV) Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Kind regards
Trevor

freelight · May 2, 2018

Not quite.......

Not quite.......

Apple7 said:
The Hand of Yahweh is the Holy Spirit (Eze 3.14; 8.3; 37.1).

The word 'hand' is wholly figurative and symbolic. Assuming the Spirit of God as the 'hand' of God is just as figurative... (Remember God is incorporeal). This in no way proves a Trinity of any kind exists, much less that God's 'hand' is the Holy Spirit within a Trinity as defined by orthdox christian theology. More Trinitarian gymnastics here.

Furthermore, previous discussion here has already proved a Unitarian interpretation of Psalm 110 as most tenable and appropriate, since David is clearly referring to Yahweh(LORD/Adonai) and to another he calls his 'master'(Lord/Adoni) who will be human son of his who will be anointed as Messiah, who later will be raised by God and made to sit at his right hand. (Notice here being at someone's right hand is a reference to a position or location of power/authority, Not a reference to the holy spirit).

Psalm 110 explained

Apple7 · May 2, 2018

TrevorL said:
But it is not the same word in Psalm 110:1 in the Hebrew. Are you suggesting that the Greek overrides the Hebrew here?

Psalm 110 uses the terms Yahweh and Adonay.

Both, of which, refer to the same ONE God.

This is made painfully clear when we consider the context of the Psalm.

110.5 declares that The Adonay, at Yahweh's Right Hand, passes judgment upon mankind, this same Adonay that Yahweh called a Priest FOREVER in the order of Melchizedek.

The fact that the NT uses the same Greek terms to describe both Yahweh (Father) and Adonay (Son) utterly crushes ANY denial that you would have, reduces it to powder, and thus effectively blown away.

Fact the music, Trev, The Father and The Son are each treated as the SAME ONE GOD.

Stop your silly running...

Apple7 · May 2, 2018

freelight said:
The word 'hand' is wholly figurative and symbolic. Assuming the Spirit of God as the 'hand' of God is just as figurative... (Remember God is incorporeal). This in no way proves a Trinity of any kind exists, much less that God's 'hand' is the Holy Spirit within a Trinity as defined by orthdox christian theology. More Trinitarian gymnastics here.

Furthermore, previous discussion here has already proved a Unitarian interpretation of Psalm 110 as most tenable and appropriate, since David is clearly referring to Yahweh(LORD/Adonai) and to another he calls his 'master'(Lord/Adoni) who will be human son of his who will be anointed as Messiah, who later will be raised by God and made to sit at his right hand. (Notice here being at someone's right hand is a reference to a position or location of power/authority, Not a reference to the holy spirit).

Psalm 110 explained

No one clicks googled links, McFly.

Start thinking for yourself, in lieu of hiding behind someone elses's work...that you have absolutely no possible way to defend, yourself...

popsthebuilder · May 2, 2018

Apple7 said:
Psalm 110 uses the terms Yahweh and Adonay.

Both, of which, refer to the same ONE God.

This is made painfully clear when we consider the context of the Psalm.

110.5 declares that The Adonay, at Yahweh's Right Hand, passes judgment upon mankind, this same Adonay that Yahweh called a Priest FOREVER in the order of Melchizedek.

The fact that the NT uses the same Greek terms to describe both Yahweh (Father) and Adonay (Son) utterly crushes ANY denial that you would have, reduces it to powder, and thus effectively blown away.

Fact the music, Trev, The Father and The Son are each treated as the SAME ONE GOD.

Stop your silly running...

Same in Spirit, yet being of isn't being co-eternal with.

The Word is GOD

GOD is Spirit

The Word is a reference to the Spirit of GOD; the same Spirit that filled the Christ of GOD/ the anointed of GOD; it is the substance that filled the Vessel and Holy Temple of GOD. The temple itself isn't the focus.....ever.....

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Apple7 · May 2, 2018

popsthebuilder said:
Same in Spirit, yet being of isn't being co-eternal with.

The Word is GOD

GOD is Spirit

The Word is a reference to the Spirit of GOD; the same Spirit that filled the Christ of GOD/ the anointed of GOD; it is the substance that filled the Vessel and Holy Temple of GOD. The temple itself isn't the focus.....ever.....

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Nope....

TrevorL · May 3, 2018

Greetings again Apple7,

I was disappointed that you did not comment on Exodus 3:14 and my view that this should be translated “I will be”. I was not trying to catch you out, or enter into a long discussion on the matter, but I was asking for you to exercise your original language skills. I am at present discussing this with a few in my fellowship, not only the meaning and translation of the Yahweh Name, but also the meaning and translation of the word Elohim. I am at present in contact with two from UK and one of these is a Hebrew scholar, also in part one from Canada (I am commenting on his article) and potentially one from NZ (a postal letter with an article is on its way). In my fellowship we are not clones, but enjoy the ebb and flow of people and ideas, so that we can learn and grow, and sometimes change our pet theories. I could add you to the conversation and say Apple7’s explanation of Yahweh and Elohim is such and such, and he is very scholarly in the original languages.

I was also disappointed that you did not make an attempt to write out your amplified version of Psalm 110:1, fitting the Holy Spirit or God the Holy Spirit directly in the sentence, but still maintaining the word “sat”, which is definitely in the original language.

Apple7 said:
Psalm 110 uses the terms Yahweh and Adonay. Both, of which, refer to the same ONE God. This is made painfully clear when we consider the context of the Psalm.
110.5 declares that The Adonay, at Yahweh's Right Hand, passes judgment upon mankind, this same Adonay that Yahweh called a Priest FOREVER in the order of Melchizedek.
The fact that the NT uses the same Greek terms to describe both Yahweh (Father) and Adonay (Son) utterly crushes ANY denial that you would have, reduces it to powder, and thus effectively blown away. Fact the music, Trev, The Father and The Son are each treated as the SAME ONE GOD.
Stop your silly running...

The following are two places in the NT where the word “Lord” is used, the first for God the Father, the second for our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. The two uses of the word are distinct and cannot be merged as you would like to impose.
Matthew 11:25–30 (KJV): 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Acts 2:32–36 (KJV): 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor

popsthebuilder · May 3, 2018

So the Word wasn't GOD?

or the Spirit isn't GOD?

Apple7 said:
Nope....

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JudgeRightly · May 3, 2018

popsthebuilder said:
So the Word wasn't GOD?

or the Spirit isn't GOD?

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They are both one God.

popsthebuilder · May 3, 2018

JudgeRightly said:
They are both one God.

The same One GOD.

I agree

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TrevorL · May 3, 2018

Greetings again JudgeRightly,

JudgeRightly said:
They are both one God.

The Hebrew word Elohim usually translated God has a different range of meaning than our English word God. When God revealed Himself to Moses at the burning bush through the Angel of Yahweh, it says that Moses was afraid to look upon God (Elohim), but this was the Angel, not Yahweh. You should attempt to discern rightly.

Kind regards
Trevor

JudgeRightly · May 3, 2018

TrevorL said:
Greetings again JudgeRightly,The Hebrew word Elohim usually translated God has a different range of meaning than our English word God. When God revealed Himself to Moses at the burning bush through the Angel of Yahweh, it says that Moses was afraid to look upon God (Elohim), but this was the Angel, not Yahweh. You should attempt to discern rightly.

Kind regards
Trevor

Nope.

That's wrong because of the following verses:

Spoiler

One Creator in this passage. ^

Spoiler

Apple7 · May 3, 2018

TrevorL said:
Greetings again Apple7,

I was disappointed that you did not comment on Exodus 3:14 and my view that this should be translated “I will be”. I was not trying to catch you out, or enter into a long discussion on the matter, but I was asking for you to exercise your original language skills. I am at present discussing this with a few in my fellowship, not only the meaning and translation of the Yahweh Name, but also the meaning and translation of the word Elohim. I am at present in contact with two from UK and one of these is a Hebrew scholar, also in part one from Canada (I am commenting on his article) and potentially one from NZ (a postal letter with an article is on its way). In my fellowship we are not clones, but enjoy the ebb and flow of people and ideas, so that we can learn and grow, and sometimes change our pet theories. I could add you to the conversation and say Apple7’s explanation of Yahweh and Elohim is such and such, and he is very scholarly in the original languages.

One salient point at a time, Trev.

Your Psalm 110.1 polemic was placed in queue, by you, first.

Don't keep trying to diminish your own polemic by interjecting other ones into the mix.

TrevorL said:
I was also disappointed that you did not make an attempt to write out your amplified version of Psalm 110:1, fitting the Holy Spirit or God the Holy Spirit directly in the sentence, but still maintaining the word “sat”, which is definitely in the original language.

I have already provided a rendering for the entire Psalm, Trev...including full context, of which, even to this very day, you continue to ignore.

What about 110.5?

So...now your concern is the term 'šêḇ'...?

If Adonay The Son is sitting, and He is with Yahweh, and the Holy Spirit, then He is upon the Throne of God!!!

You just keep on proving The Son's deity, over and over again...

TrevorL said:
The following are two places in the NT where the word “Lord” is used, the first for God the Father, the second for our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. The two uses of the word are distinct and cannot be merged as you would like to impose.
Matthew 11:25–30 (KJV): 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Acts 2:32–36 (KJV): 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor

Acts 2.34 has 'kurios' applied to BOTH Yahweh, and to Jesus, as it quotes DIRECTLY from psalm 110.

Thus, Yahweh (The Father) and Adonay (The Son) are EQUAL!

What part of this don't you quite grasp, Trev?

But...

Then look what missed (again) Acts 2.33 explicitly informs the reader that The Right hand of God IS The Holy Spirit!

This was YOUR example, Trev....how could you be so blind?!

TrevorL · May 3, 2018

Greetings again JudgeRightly,

JudgeRightly said:
Some of those verses are pretty explicit that there were no elohim (gods) beside God at creation.

The context and contrast in Isaiah 44:6-8 is between God (Elohim) and the pagan gods of the nations, to which the nations around attributed various roles, and sadly many in Israel with their idolatry worshipped these pagan gods. God the Father, Yahweh is stating that He alone is the Creator of all things in heaven and earth. In Genesis 1:26-27 Yahweh invited the Angels to participate in the creation of man after their combined image and likeness, and this is summarised in Psalm 8:5 that Yahweh created man a little lower than Elohim, that is the angels.

Kind regards
Trevor

Apple7 · May 3, 2018

TrevorL said:
Greetings again JudgeRightly,The Hebrew word Elohim usually translated God has a different range of meaning than our English word God. When God revealed Himself to Moses at the burning bush through the Angel of Yahweh, it says that Moses was afraid to look upon God (Elohim), but this was the Angel, not Yahweh. You should attempt to discern rightly.

Kind regards
Trevor

Malek Yahweh IS Yahweh, and He was worshiped as Yahweh.

Study your scriptures, Trev...

TrevorL · May 4, 2018

Greetings again Apple7,

Apple7 said:
Then look what missed (again) Acts 2.33 explicitly informs the reader that The Right hand of God IS The Holy Spirit!
This was YOUR example, Trev....how could you be so blind?!

Problem with your doctoring of this verse I can still read the rest of the words of the verse. Perhaps you should go the other way and make the words before and in between that give the sense of the verse unreadable, even smaller than this, then we will be blind to what it actually says:
Acts 2:32-33 (KJV): 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Moving on to another aspect of Psalm 110:1, the second phrase teaches that Jesus will remain at the right hand of God until a certain time:
Psalm 110:1–2 (KJV): 1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
This indicates a future time when Jesus will return to the earth.

This is taught in the following, and this is where the Bible parts company with the beliefs and teaching of the JWs who believe that Jesus will stay in heaven.
Acts 3:19–21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Acts 3:19–21 (NWT): 19 “Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out, so that seasons of refreshing may come from Jehovah himself 20 and he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus. 21 Heaven must hold this one within itself until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke through the mouth of his holy prophets of old.
The above underlined indicates that God will send Jesus, and that he will be in heaven seated at God’s right hand until this time, when he will then leave heaven.

The following is an indication that Jesus will return to the earth to sit upon the throne of David in Jerusalem, and Jesus alludes to Psalm 110:1
Revelation 3:21 (KJV): To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Kind regards
Trevor

Apple7 · May 4, 2018

TrevorL said:
Greetings again Apple7, Problem with your doctoring of this verse I can still read the rest of the words of the verse. Perhaps you should go the other way and make the words before and in between that give the sense of the verse unreadable, even smaller than this, then we will be blind to what it actually says:
Acts 2:32-33 (KJV): 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Kind regards
Trevor

You can't change the fact that The Holy Spirit is also referred to as The Right Hand of God in this passage.

Further, since we are on Acts, let's show you that that Jesus is THE CREATOR GOD, as thus...

ο θεος αβρααμ και ισαακ και ιακωβ ο θεος των πατερων ημων εδοξασεν τον παιδα αυτου ιησουν ον υμεις μεν παρεδωκατε και ηρνησασθε κατα προσωπον πιλατου κριναντος εκεινου απολυειν υμεις δε τον αγιον και δικαιον ηρνησασθε και ητησασθε ανδρα φονεα χαρισθηναι υμιν τον δε αρχηγον της ζωης απεκτεινατε ον ο θεος ηγειρεν εκ νεκρων ου ημεις μαρτυρες εσμεν

ho theos abraam kai isaak kai iakōb ho theos tōn paterōn ēmōn edoxasen ton paida autou iēsoun on umeis men paredōkate kai ērnēsasthe kata prosōpon pilatou krinantos ekeinou apoluein umeis de ton agion kai dikaion ērnēsasthe kai ētēsasthe andra phonea charisthēnai umin ton de archēgon tēs zōēs apekteinate on ho theos ēgeiren ek nekrōn ou ēmeis martures esmen

The "God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob," "the God of our fathers," glorified the Son of Him, Jesus, whom you delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, that one having decided to set Him free. But you denied the Holy and Just One, and asked for a man, a murderer, to be granted to you. And the Originator of Life you killed, whom God raised up from the dead, of which we are witnesses. (Act 3.13 -15)

Here we have Peter declaring to the Jews that they rejected and killed the ‘Originator of Life’(de archēgon tēs zōēs), Jesus.

Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

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Eclectic Theosophist

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裁判官が正しく判断する

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裁判官が正しく判断する

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