Christian Art

clefty

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So you agree that the Roman church of Emperor Constantine, are no more than a mob of idolaters?

Sure...but they don't have a monopoly that is for sure...the eastern orthodox are right there with them...even more so when you toss in the kissing ikons thingy

I struggled 20+ years of my life as a fine arts painter and still do...but after quitting arts and removing permenantly my work...I have been blessed...

halleluYah
 
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clefty

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details do matter...jots and tittles...



Never forbade his portrait, likeness, etc,
doing His Father's Will is obeying Him...I think that settles sitting for portraits...

You can be sure if He did, it would be a comfort and prized icon to this day...instead we have images of "early century" work of who knows who but they ascribe it as Him or His...baptizing pagan idols for Christian use was/is the norm


but if you think art is wrong, then according to scripture art is wrong for you (Romans 14:14).
maybe we should unpack that text and prevent you from misapplying it to allowing murder or fornicstion or stealing or lying or hey wait that is Christian history isn't it? Splains a lot don't it...



some fruit is real some is merely really good representation...test all things...taste and see...



I can't find any evidence that Picasso actually said that, but he did say, "The purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls."

There are some doozies in here...

http://www.art-quotes.com/auth_search.php?authid=72#.WL3seZFOKhA
 

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Image from the Shroud of Turin:

negative-and-positive-image.jpg
 

popsthebuilder

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If it was important He would have sat for pictures...

It wasn't...He didn't...make no image
The image I posted is not that of idol worship but is very telling if one actually studies it.

It was not meant as a depiction of our Lord that we should worship, it does show some other issues we have with the "church" though.

peace

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Of course the Word was made flesh...visible tangible literal...but He never introduced a whole new economy of images...or He would have allowed His portrait or likeness...hair...fingernails...you know, something to provide visible worshipable comfort...

In fact, he did:

1 Cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1 Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

TheEucharist.png
 

clefty

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In fact, he did:

1 Cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1 Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

TheEucharist.png

Yes some still make idols... but He clarified that flesh (the physical) profits NOTHING...
 

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Yes some still make idols... but He clarified that flesh (the physical) profits NOTHING...

Could it be that you misunderstand that quote? St. Augustine explains:

What is it, then, that He adds? "It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing." ... it is said that "the flesh profiteth nothing," in the same manner as it is said that "knowledge puffeth up." Then, ought we at once to hate knowledge? Far from it! And what means "Knowledge puffeth up"? Knowledge alone, without charity. Therefore he added, "but charity edifieth." Therefore add thou to knowledge charity, and knowledge will be profitable, not by itself, but through charity. So also here, "the flesh profiteth nothing," only when alone. Let the Spirit be added to the flesh, as charity is added to knowledge, and it profiteth very much. For if the flesh profited nothing, the Word would not be made flesh to dwell among us.​

If the body and blood of Jesus profited nothing, then why was it necessary for the Son of God to become flesh and blood and be sacrificed on the cross for us? And why was it necessary for Jesus to institute the Lord's Supper?
 

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The Jews did not believe Jesus that he said they had to eat his flesh an drink his blood. They walked away. If he was speaking metaphorically he would have called them back and said, “Hey guys, you don’t understand — see the Protestants have it right — what I just said is metaphor so you don’t have to be offended and walk away!” But he didn’t — he let the crowd of disciples walk away.

Your friend will also try to use this verse as an argument against you:

“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.” (John 6:63, NASB95)

He will probably say, “The flesh profits nothing, see!”

Concerning this, Jesus is not speaking about His Flesh (“My Flesh”), in verse 63 but “the flesh” which is very different and which is missed by sloppy-thinking Protestants like your friend. When Protestants claim “My flesh” profits nothing, they prove way too much! They are claiming that the Incarnation of Jesus in the flesh and the bodily resurrection has no profit.

What Jesus means by “”the flesh profits nothing” is very simple because he uses the phrase again in John 8:15 (we must let the Bible interpret the Bible :) where he says:

“You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.” (John 8:15, NKJV)

duccioultimacenaOther Bibles translate this “according to the flesh”, or “by human standards”, or “by appearances” or “with your human mind“. When Jesus uses the phrase “the flesh” he is referring to human understanding apart from divine revelation. Your friend judges the Eucharist by human standards (“Looks like bread, feels like bread, tastes like bread — must be bread”).

This statement of Jesus affirms what he has said about eating his Flesh and drinking his Blood and tells us it is a great mystery — spirit and life. With these words Jesus castigates the unbelieving Protestant along with the unbelieving Jews for judging spiritual things with earthly minds — by the flesh — and failing to understand the deep mysteries of God in the Eucharist.

-- http://www.catholicconvert.com/blog/2009/05/12/the-eucharist-the-flesh-profits-nothing/
 

clefty

New member
The Jews did not believe Jesus that he said they had to eat his flesh an drink his blood. They walked away. If he was speaking metaphorically he would have called them back and said, “Hey guys, you don’t understand — see the Protestants have it right — what I just said is metaphor so you don’t have to be offended and walk away!” But he didn’t — he let the crowd of disciples walk away.

Your friend will also try to use this verse as an argument against you:

“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.” (John 6:63, NASB95)

He will probably say, “The flesh profits nothing, see!”

Concerning this, Jesus is not speaking about His Flesh (“My Flesh”), in verse 63 but “the flesh” which is very different and which is missed by sloppy-thinking Protestants like your friend. When Protestants claim “My flesh” profits nothing, they prove way too much! They are claiming that the Incarnation of Jesus in the flesh and the bodily resurrection has no profit.

What Jesus means by “”the flesh profits nothing” is very simple because he uses the phrase again in John 8:15 (we must let the Bible interpret the Bible :) where he says:

“You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.” (John 8:15, NKJV)

duccioultimacenaOther Bibles translate this “according to the flesh”, or “by human standards”, or “by appearances” or “with your human mind“. When Jesus uses the phrase “the flesh” he is referring to human understanding apart from divine revelation. Your friend judges the Eucharist by human standards (“Looks like bread, feels like bread, tastes like bread — must be bread”).

This statement of Jesus affirms what he has said about eating his Flesh and drinking his Blood and tells us it is a great mystery — spirit and life. With these words Jesus castigates the unbelieving Protestant along with the unbelieving Jews for judging spiritual things with earthly minds — by the flesh — and failing to understand the deep mysteries of God in the Eucharist.

-- http://www.catholicconvert.com/blog/2009/05/12/the-eucharist-the-flesh-profits-nothing/

Yes yes..."this is my body" offered before the sacrifice...before it is even killed...

A live sacrifice with blood still in it...

Was wondering is His body leavened or unleavened?

And why the miracle of the Eucharist is not complete enough for those with wheat allergies to eat of it?

Instead they must have a special "body of Christ" baked for them...

Or is indeed the allergen not in the substance which transforms but in its accidents which don't?...
 
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Perhaps Jesus should have known better before instituting the Lord's Supper? Should he have conferred with you for advice?
 

jsanford108

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Yes I agree...love and reverence for Jesus is what is important...and He said do the Will of His Father which includes "make no image...worship none made..."

He knew how people need comfort, and to see with their eyes, touch with their hands, kiss with their lips...and yet He left NOTHING for us but His words...

Were it important enough He would have sat for His portrait and left many relics...instead He kept His Father's Law and asked we do the same...

You just couldn't let it go, could you?

Well is Christ was so concerned about leaving "only" His word, why did He not write it Himself, or command His Disciples to do it?

Or maybe, He did give such a commandment?


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Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Yes I agree...love and reverence for Jesus is what is important...and He said do the Will of His Father which includes "make no image...worship none made..."

He knew how people need comfort, and to see with their eyes, touch with their hands, kiss with their lips...and yet He left NOTHING for us but His words...

Were it important enough He would have sat for His portrait and left many relics...instead He kept His Father's Law and asked we do the same...

Riddle me this...?!?

(Galatians 2:21)

Do you realize what you just did? (1 Cor. 1:17). This is unwise!
 

clefty

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You just couldn't let it go, could you?
let what go? The prohibition against idolatry and traditions of man? Nope. Better we ought to obey Yah rather than man even Peter concludes...

Well is Christ was so concerned about leaving "only" His word, why did He not write it Himself, or command His Disciples to do it?

Or maybe, He did give such a commandment?

You don't think our Creator knows what is best for us? He knows how prone we are to false worship and idolatry and had He written His own book you can be sure the line for kissing da ikon would be long and not cheap...

Ours is a faith in that which is UNSEEN...

Instead we are to worship in spirit and in truth...the words He speaks are life...truth and spirit

Write the words... but even in that (copyists and translators know this) there is an agenda to distort even with just punctuation, the understanding...

He was concerned that we do His Fathers will...you know, that OT thingy...

Certainly more than our comfort and dependance on worship aids and crutches...
 

clefty

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Perhaps Jesus should have known better before instituting the Lord's Supper? Should he have conferred with you for advice?

You talking to me I assume?

What He did and what Christians did with what He did are quite different...

Does your Eucharist include foot washing every time the wine becomes the actual blood?

Are both species served? With the hand or?

Did the apostles burn the leftovers?
 
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