Can Anyone Explain 'Why gay marriage?'

musterion

Well-known member
Blimey....will wonders never cease?

That's why Calvinism is the most finely tuned blasphemy ever devised. NOT ONLY does the Calvinism God choose who is in the Elect bucket or the Reprobate bucket before anyone even sins...NOT ONLY is there nothing you can do to get out of the Reprobate bucket...but the Calvinism God actually jerks reprobates around by allowing them to have a false faith by which they THINK and HOPE they're saved, but aren't.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Either Universal salvation is true, or God's grace is particular to a chosen people.

No middle ground . . .

Are you a Universalist?
That you argue with scripture is a clear indication of your unbelief.

PJ quoted this:
1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
(4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Do you not believe it?
 

Eagles Wings

New member
These debates are all pointless.

Scripture is against homosexuality.

Period.

Thus, those who claim live by The Book, should not hold to homosexuality.

As for it's solving for, Scripture is clear on this also.

That government is not the solution.

The Law of Moses basically proved what Scripture asserts it had set out to prove - that any attempt to legislate morality will end in failure.

That only the gospel of Christ preached and believed in can solve for such issues.

At least that is the Lord's word on this through the pen of Scripture's writers way back when depravity was at a height we have yet to witness in our day no matter how bad things are thus far....

When the following was written, murder for sport was the norm, along with out in the open pedophilia, as well as both straight and homosexual prostitution, you name it.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

No where in any of their writings and or preachings does one see them going on about running for office and or supporting one fool or another as some sort of a means of converting the world to what would make the so called religious right happy in their obvious hypocrisy.

We read instead, things like...

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

In short, how that the lost can be expected to carry on like the lost.

And how that there is no legislating such away from that.

And that the Believer is neither of that, nor able to somehow normalize it into fitting his beliefs.

That the Believer's role is to be that of one who compassionately continues to preach the following, for it alone is the Believer's sole reality as to a solution.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12
Excellent post.
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
I wrote 'If'!
Originally Posted by eider:-
Question:- If you, by giving up your soul and place in Heaven could save every othrer person in the World...... would you give it up?
Paul addressed this almost directly. Romans 9:3 (KJV)
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
That you argue with scripture is a clear indication of your unbelief.

PJ quoted this:
1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
(4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Do you not believe it?

Scripture tells us that all men redeemed by the Saviour, will believe in Him.

I Timothy 4:10, John 3:16
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
That's why Calvinism is the most finely tuned blasphemy ever devised. NOT ONLY does the Calvinism God choose who is in the Elect bucket or the Reprobate bucket before anyone even sins...NOT ONLY is there nothing you can do to get out of the Reprobate bucket...but the Calvinism God actually jerks reprobates around by allowing them to have a false faith by which they THINK and HOPE they're saved, but aren't.

Now this is blasphemy! :down:

Sovereign God, kindly and fairly warns all sinners of His judgments. That is why He created men under the Law . . so that they may know His moral standards.

In both the O.T. and N.T. prophecy, regarding destruction of unbelief and sinfulness, came with fair warnings from God and reiteration of His commands under the Law to repent and obey.

There is no such thing as a reprobate being "jerked around" or faked by God. Not a one of them are innocent.

Every single one of them have both the witness of the natural law of creation all around them that reveals the majesty of God, as well as the moral and biblical law proclaimed to all the nations down through history.

Read CAREFULLY Romans 1:18-25

And Romans 1:26-32 gives clear answer to the OP.
 

musterion

Well-known member
There is no such thing as a reprobate being "jerked around" or faked by God. Not a one of them are innocent.

Every single one of them have both the witness of the natural law of creation all around them that reveals the majesty of God, as well as the moral and biblical law proclaimed to all the nations down through history.

This is why you, Mr. or Mrs. Nang, are a putrid idol worshipper and a liar.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER A SINNER IS 'INNOCENT' OR NOT.

THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE CHARACTER OF GOD HIMSELF.

Calvinism says He lies by giving temporary faith that deceives a reprobate into thinking they've believed the Gospel which cannot save them because the Blood was never shed for them.

Repent of your blasphemy and believe the Gospel of grace, or be cast into the Lake.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Scripture says that He is the Saviour of ALL men, specially of those that believe.

YOU are a scripture TWISTER.

Your bogus limited atonement doctrine is a LIE.

Well, to be fair, that would align more with universal salvation than either your position or Nang's. If God is the saviour of all men then that blows Calvinism out of the water and it also does away with the notion that God is only the saviour of those who believe.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
This is why you, Mr. or Mrs. Nang, are a putrid idol worshipper and a liar.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER A SINNER IS 'INNOCENT' OR NOT.

THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE CHARACTER OF GOD HIMSELF.

Calvinism says He lies by giving temporary faith that deceives a reprobate into thinking they've believed the Gospel which cannot save them because the Blood was never shed for them.

Repent of your blasphemy and believe the Gospel of grace, or be cast into the Lake.

Hmm, she can only 'repent' if she's one of the elect can't he? Seems a bit pointless if she's already predestined to be cast away anyway...
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Calvinism says He lies by giving temporary faith that deceives a reprobate into thinking they've believed the Gospel which cannot save them because the Blood was never shed for them.

No Calvinist would ever say God lies. You are the one making this blasphemous charge.

All reprobates deceive themselves and adopt false religions/delusions because they do not possess any love for God or His Truth. II Thessalonians 10-12
 

musterion

Well-known member
Hmm, she can only 'repent' if she's one of the elect can't he? Seems a bit pointless if she's already predestined to be cast away anyway...

Why are you even here on this?

But to answer that -- repent means "change of mind." If she's reprobate (as Calvinism defines it) she can't. If she's elect (as Calvinism misdefines it) she doesn't need to. It's that simple.

I swear, if I were a truly committed Calvinist/fatalist, I wouldn't waste one second of time on TOL because NOTHING I OR ANYONE COULD SAY WOULD MAKE A DAMN BIT OF DIFFERENCE FOR ANYONE.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Well, to be fair, that would align more with universal salvation than either your position or Nang's. If God is the saviour of all men then that blows Calvinism out of the water and it also does away with the notion that God is only the saviour of those who believe.

God has elected to save a remnant out of all humanity, chosen and called out of every tribe and nationality, and they will all hear and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Revelation 5:9; 7:9

That is what John 3:16 and I Timothy 4:10 teach.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Why are you even here on this?

But to answer that -- repent means "change of mind." If she's reprobate (as Calvinism defines it) she can't. If she's elect (as Calvinism misdefines it) she doesn't need to. It's that simple.

I swear, if I were a truly committed Calvinist/fatalist, I wouldn't waste one second of time on TOL because NOTHING I OR ANYONE COULD SAY WOULD MAKE A DAMN BIT OF DIFFERENCE FOR ANYONE.

Why not? I don't ascribe to either Calvinism or your own branch of belief as I consider both to be insidious in their own ways and anything but reflective of a loving God. One way you're damned if you're not already elected and the other you're damned if you don't believe - and in alignment with "correct doctrine" at that. 'Hell' doctrines make monsters out of people sometimes. The only thing I'll agree with is the latter. It seems utterly pointless to even post if everything is a done deal. I said this to Nang in relation to my nieces where she said she'd pray for them. If they're 'elect' they're elect and if they aren't they aren't. Prayers wouldn't make one jot of difference...
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
God has elected to save a remnant out of all humanity, chosen and called out of every tribe and nationality, and they will all hear and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Revelation 5:9; 7:9

That is what John 3:16 and I Timothy 4:10 teach.

According to you. I hold no truck with any insidious belief system thanks.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Liar. Just like your true father.

If God gives a false, temporary, useless "faith" to reprobates whom He has no intention of saving, then He's a liar.

God does not "give" anyone a useless faith. Reprobates subject themselves to worldly and lawless delusions and falsehood, because they do not love the Truth.

You cannot and should not blame God for sin or death. Adam is held accountable. Romans 5:12

All of humanity would be justly destroyed if God did not bestow His grace upon a remnant, and gift them with faith to believe in Jesus Christ.

You focus on the negative and blaspheme God, rather than glorify His mercy and grace.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Why not? I don't ascribe to either Calvinism or your own branch of belief as I consider both to be insidious in their own ways and anything but reflective of a loving God. One way you're damned if you're not already elected and the other you're damned if you don't believe - and in alignment with "correct doctrine" at that. 'Hell' doctrines make monsters out of people sometimes. The only thing I'll agree with is the latter. It seems utterly pointless to even post if everything is a done deal. I said this to Nang in relation to my nieces where she said she'd pray for them. If they're 'elect' they're elect and if they aren't they aren't. Prayers wouldn't make one jot of difference...

If Christian prayer is not one of God's means, why does he have me praying for them?
 
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