Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?

[marhig]

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Saint-Augustine

Thanks for the link, I've just had a quick look and i read this

"His numerous written works, the most important of which are.Confessions and City of God, shaped the practice of biblical exegesis and helped lay the foundation for much of medieval and modern Christian thought."

Why have his works helped to lay the foundation of much of medieval and modern Christian thought? We have the apostles and the prophets as our foundation and Christ as our cornerstone?

We don't need another foundation, we have one in Christ?

1 Corinthians 3

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

 

[Nang]

No I'm not a Calvinist, I'm a follower of Christ. I'd never even heard of Calvin until I came hear. And to be honest the things that I've heard that he did to others, are far from Christ.

We don't need to know anything about Calvin to follow Christ, we need to do the will of God.

TOL is anti-calvinist. You would do better to search out for yourself, the history of the Reformation, for Calvinists are the Protestant Reformers who God used to free believers from Roman Catholic oppression.

 

[marhig]

TOL is anti-calvinist. You would do better to search out for yourself, the history of the Reformation, for Calvinists are the Protestant Reformers who God used to free believers from Roman Catholic oppression.

Nang, I've only ever read the Bible, i don't believe in denominations, i believe that all those who truly follow Christ are those who worship the father in Spirit and in truth and do the will of God. Regardless of denomination. Christ is not a denomination, he is the way, and his way is the only way and i follow him.

 

[Nang]

Thanks for the link, I've just had a quick look and i read this

"His numerous written works, the most important of which are.Confessions and City of God, shaped the practice of biblical exegesis and helped lay the foundation for much of medieval and modern Christian thought."

Why have his works helped to lay the foundation of much of medieval and modern Christian thought? We have the apostles and the prophets as our foundation and Christ as our cornerstone?

We don't need another foundation, we have one in Christ?

1 Corinthians 3

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Augustine based his theology on Holy Scripture.

There are many faithful church fathers you can learn from, because they taught bible only. Do not be afraid to learn church history.

Also, you can study the orthodox Protestant Confessions and Creeds, which are summary of Holy Scripture. These can bring you many blessings and will enhance your bible studies.

 

[Crucible]

Who is saint Augustine? I've never heard of him, i only read the Bible and my rock is Christ!

Whether you choose to believe so or not, most of what you believe has come from historical theologians.

St Augustine is one of, if not the, most influential theologians in Christian history.

 

[Nang]

Nang, I've only ever read the Bible, i don't believe in denominations, i believe that all those who truly follow Christ are those who worship the father in Spirit and in truth and do the will of God. Regardless of denomination. Christ is not a denomination, he is the way, and his way is the only way and i follow him.

I admire your devotion to the Holy Scriptures, and understand the position you take. One must be centered upon the Word of God alone, for it is our final authority in all matters of faith and practice.

However, when armed with biblical knowledge, one does not need to fear nor neglect learning from fellow Christians who preceded us in history. We can learn from their teachings and examples, using the Scriptures to evaluate their efforts.

Part of the reason heresy finds its way into the minds and hearts of well-meaning believers, is because they fail to become aware of the mistakes of the past. The bible is all we need to know God, but we do well to learn how to use the Scriptures to protect ourselves from harm. And reading about church history and how God used certain men to protect the faith, is incredibly wise for all who profess faith in Jesus Christ.

After all, Christ is the one who raised up saints and inspired them to teach the Scriptures to the church. Why ignore those provided to us by God Himself?

And Protestantism is not a denomination. We are Christians just like you, who hold to Holy Scripture (Sola Scriptura) as our final authority. We are fellow believers. There is great benefit in the fellowship and conversations and learning amongst those of like faith and devotion to Jesus Christ.

Else why would we be looking for theological discussion online?

You would be much safer doing some internet browsing about church history, then hanging out here on TOL, where much error and opposition to the orthodox faith lurks.

 

[marhig]

I admire your devotion to the Holy Scriptures, and understand the position you take. One must be centered upon the Word of God alone, for it is our final authority in all matters of faith and practice.

However, when armed with biblical knowledge, one does not need to fear nor neglect learning from fellow Christians who preceded us in history. We can learn from their teachings and examples, using the Scriptures to evaluate their efforts.

Part of the reason heresy finds its way into the minds and hearts of well-meaning believers, is because they fail to become aware of the mistakes of the past. The bible is all we need to know God, but we do well to learn how to use the Scriptures to protect ourselves from harm. And reading about church history and how God used certain men to protect the faith, is incredibly wise for all who profess faith in Jesus Christ.

After all, Christ is the one who raised up saints and inspired them to teach the Scriptures to the church. Why ignore those provided to us by God Himself?

And Protestantism is not a denomination. We are Christians just like you, who hold to Holy Scripture (Sola Scriptura) as our final authority. We are fellow believers. There is great benefit in the fellowship and conversations and learning amongst those of like faith and devotion to Jesus Christ.

Else why would we be looking for theological discussion online?

You would be much safer doing some internet browsing about church history, then hanging out here on TOL, where much error and opposition to the orthodox faith lurks.

I will know who is and who isn't of the truth, those who are true followers of Jesus are those who have turned from the world and live humbly, as did his apostles. You can see even from reading the Bible without seeing them that the the apostles had the Holy Spirit and that they had laid down their life for God. Whose who want power and to be worshipped and bowed down to by man, are not born of God. Even when John bowed down to the angel in revelation the angel told him not to do so as he was his brethren.

We don't need long gowns and tall hats, man made traditions and ornate churches, statues and idols and false teachings that go against what Christ taught. We don't need man made saints who are worshipped and we don't need to plow millions into church funds to build up the buildings which would be better spent on the poor, we are the temple of the living God. Or go to church all dolled up on a Sunday then back to our own ways in the Monday.

We need to lay down our lives and become living sacrifices and have Christ and his life in our hearts. We need to truly love God with our all everyday, and love our neighbour as ourselves, we should be turning from sin and doing God's will, listening to our conscience daily and living to please him and not pleasing our flesh. This is worshipping God in Spirit and in truth through Christ. And all this is taught in the Bible. We don't need anything added on. There is enough there to teach is how to please God as live right before him, and Christ Jesus is our perfect example.

I heard the word from my uncle who was a lay preacher who went out by faith in God and preached Gods word as the disciples did in the Bible. He trusted in God and Christ completely and he taught me to do the same. He always told me to go back to the Bible and he only ever taught what was in the Bible. He didn't just speak it, he lived it and this is how i knew he was a true man of God. Because when I read the Bible properly myself, i knew that Christ was in him, because i saw the life of Christ in him and in his life.

 

[Lon]

So Christ died for some sins and not others? He made a limited and partial atonement like some bean counter. You people have had 400 years to figure this out and I'm not seeing much progress. Lutherans still outrank their lesser Calvinist pretenders.

Go ahead, show how He died for Pharoah?

 

[Lon]

This is "Amyraldianism."

I agree, it is 'why' I'm a Calvinist. For me, Amyraldianism is why I'm a Calvinist thus I think Amyraldian contemplated, leads to Calvinism.

 

[meshak]

TOL is anti-calvinist. You would do better to search out for yourself, the history of the Reformation, for Calvinists are the Protestant Reformers who God used to free believers from Roman Catholic oppression.

Why do you have the need to follow men when Jesus' word is available?

 

[Lon]

Why do you have the need to follow men when Jesus' word is available?

1. You follow Charles Taze Russell. Whatever sense you are a JW, you are a Russellite. 2. Whatever sense I embrace a doctrine that coincides with another, I got there by reading my Bible.

At the end, it is more your lack of understanding than an actual, to ask. We don't really see you as Biblically literate on TOL. You aren't able to really engage in deeper conversations on TOL, because you are about as thin as JW doctrine.

 

[Robert Pate]

TOL is anti-calvinist. You would do better to search out for yourself, the history of the Reformation, for Calvinists are the Protestant Reformers who God used to free believers from Roman Catholic oppression.

The reformation was not about John Calvin, the reformation was about Martin Luther and his discovery of the doctrine of justification by faith apart from the works of the law. John Calvin supported Luther, but then went off and established his own doctrine of Calvinism, which many believe to be heresy.

 

[meshak]

1. You follow Charles Taze Russell.

You are false witnessing.

shame on you.

BTW, why do you think you have to study Calvin's teachings to follow Jesus?

 

[Nang]

Why do you have the need to follow men when Jesus' word is available?

Learning church history and studying orthodoxy, is not "following men." It complements my long lifetime of continual and serious study of the Holy Scriptures.

I reject the accusation you make against me, as being false.

 

[meshak]

Learning church history and studying orthodoxy, is not "following men."
.

Ok, then why do you have the need to study history of orthodoxy to serve God and Jesus when Jesus' word is available?

 

[Crucible]

Calvinism is a very powerful theology- he explains a very powerful gospel

If it's offensive, then it ought to be, because God never once gives man a 'middle ground' to sit upon.

You ought to be an atheist complaining about Hell

Calvin was very zealous of God, and he understood His sovereignty

 

[Nang]

The reformation was not about John Calvin, the reformation was about Martin Luther and his discovery of the doctrine of justification by faith apart from the works of the law. John Calvin supported Luther, but then went off and established his own doctrine of Calvinism, which many believe to be heresy.

The Reformation was all about Truth. God's Truth as revealed in the Scriptures, that had been oppressed and kept from the people for centuries. God raised up faithful believers to bring Truth forth from the great spiritual darkness into which it had been plunged, in order to enlighten multitudes out of all the nations.

 

[Nang]

Ok, then why do you have the need to study history of orthodoxy to serve God and Jesus when Jesus' word is available?

Do you know what the word "complement" means?

 

[meshak]

Do you know what the word "complement" means?

Is it addition?

Anyway, why do you avoid my question?

 

[Lon]

You are false witnessing.

:nono: You have told us the JW's are right. You've told us you've learned from them. They, like you
1) believe war is wrong for Christians (one of only 3 messages you really stand for on TOL).
2) believe the Trinity is wrong and only a few thousand JW's Arians and Unitarians are right.
3) believe in works salvation like every other cult and religion BUT Christianity.

shame on you.

:nono: Shame on you. Your doctrine is as thin as these 3 above. No matter what subject, you only have these 3 responses. You are only concerned about these 3 things and ever only talk about these three things. Shame on you for not learning anything else or more from God.
Shame on you, for being on TOL and not encouraging people to walk, with God, but standing as an accuser, like you are doing here. Shame on you for being blind to the log in your own eye while trying to remove a splinter from another's. Matthew 7:2-4 Read it, Meshak.

BTW, why do you think you have to study Calvin's teachings to follow Jesus?

Nope. In a sense, he's followed what I've learned from scripture. IOW, the scriptures have made me what I am.

Nang said it better than I:

Learning church history and studying orthodoxy, is not "following men." It complements my long lifetime of continual and serious study of the Holy Scriptures.

I reject the accusation you make against me, as being false.