Only those that honor God's Son by believing in him will be granted eternal life. You don't believe in him. You teach that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the world. You dishonor Jesus and make God unjust. I don't think that God or Jesus is going to honor what you believe about them.
Calvinism and the word "WORLD"
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Only those that honor God's Son by believing in him will be granted eternal life. You don't believe in him. You teach that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the world. You dishonor Jesus and make God unjust. I don't think that God or Jesus is going to honor what you believe about them.
Nanja
Well-known member
According to the scripures, the World [kosmos] of God's Elect were Justified in Eternity.
This is the Gospel according to the Power of God 2 Tim. 1:8:
2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
And Rom. 8:30, 33
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
So the Elect need do nothing to secure their Salvation Eph. 2:8-9, for they were already Called, Justified / Saved, and Glorified In Christ from Everlasting according to God's Eternal Purpose Eph. 3:11.
However, when they are born in time and born again, they shall receive the fruit of the Spirit and given Faith to Believe on Christ Gal. 5:22; Phil. 1:29. For Jesus Christ Himself, their Covenant Head and Surety from Everlasting Heb. 7:22, is the Author and Finisher of their Faith Heb. 12:2!
All of the scriptures that you quote are about you and your religion. You say NOTHING that honors Jesus Christ and his Gospel that you don't believe.
Nanja
Well-known member
All the scriptures are the written Word of God and Honour Jesus Christ The Living Word!
The scriptures honor God and glorify Jesus Christ, but you don't. You believe that God is a tyrant and his Son Jesus Christ is a failure.
Nanja
Well-known member
Now you know you don't believe that.
You don't believe all the scriptures, but choose the ones that console your blinded mind, and then pervert their meaning.
You possess a demonic hatred for God's Election of Grace and His Predestination of them to the Adoption of Sons Eph. 1:4-5.
Woe unto you in that Great Day Zeph. 1:14!
The term "God's election of grace" is not to be found anywhere in the Bible. Nor is there any scripture about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell.
My salvation is not based upon a religion. My salvation is based upon the doing and the dying of Jesus.
You have embraced a doctrine that was conceived in the mind of a 25 year old heretic back in the 1500's.
Nanja
Well-known member
Your responses have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever of your salvation.
On the contrary Jude 1:4!
Your salvation is based upon the doctrine of a heretic and not the word of God. You believe God to be a tyrant that damns people to hell and to make matters worse you believe that his Son is a failure.
Nanja
Well-known member
flintstoned
New member
Aren't you the one who believes that Jesus takes away the sins of the world only to impute them BACK to (some) people later? YOU don't believe in him. YOU don't believe Him when he said "it is finished."
Epoisses
New member
Those that reject Christ and his finished work do in fact die for their own sins.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Heb. 10:26
"My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness".
Your hope is built on the words of a heretic.
flintstoned
New member
Of course they die for their own sins. They were condemned already. Their sins were not taken away and then imputed BACK to them.
:hammer:
Epoisses
New member
Their sins were forgiven 'in Christ' which is very difficult for you people to wrap your little minds around. Jesus did not die for specific people on the cross which is just comical to begin with. He was an incarnated God/man that took fallen humanity on himself lived a perfect life, died the death of the cross and then rose from the grave. Sin is not our good deeds vs. our bad deeds because we have no inherent goodness to begin with. Sin is a fallen and carnal nature that all men are born with.
Nanja
Well-known member
Liar.
It is very troublesome for you that others that are not Calvinist have faith in Christ.
"On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand". The sinking sand is religion, including the Calvinist religion.
Why did they repent of their sins? (Hint: it was not because they were good people, and your corrupt notion that they were righteous and “ALREADY belonged to God” is a joke.)
The Pharisees were Jews, also. So what. Most of them could not believe and repent, and they could not come to Jesus. (You seem to have forgotten what started this exchange.)
So you're saying that the prostitutes and tax collectors were not accustomed to doing evil? They were exactly that kind of people. You are silly enough to believe that they were good, righteous people who already believed in God and so could be passed to believing in Jesus with no muss and no fuss.
If you actually read John4, you'd find that Jesus BEGAN the interaction. He specifically wanted to speak to this Samaritan woman and engage with her (which was a bit scandalous in that culture.)
John4:25-26 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.” Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
John4:39-42 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His own word. 42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.”
He came so that she and many in her city would believe in Him. He is the Savior of the world: Jew, Gentile and Samaritan. Your dispensationalist crap tells you that Jesus didn't want them yet but there is zero in the passage to suggest that His timing or their faith was deficient. This is exactly what Jesus spoke about in Matt11.
Matt11:25-27 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
1 - Seeking God because you want Him to make things easier for you and give you stuff is not what we are talking about. That is why they cried out in Exod 3 and during the exile in Ezekiel's time. That kind of seeking did not cut it, which is why God tells Ezekiel that He will put His Spirit within them and cause them to obey and worship Him.
2 - If the scriptures say that no one seeks God for Himself as an act of worship, even among His own people (who are the only ones with His scriptures), and then describes someone who does seek God, there is only one logical conclusion, that God has opened their eyes and changed their hearts to enable them to believe and seek Him, such that He gets all the glory from their conversion and Paul's words are true: that God gives all the increase in His Church.
The alternative is that people who are at enmity with God and hate Him might choose to love and believe in Him for no reason. If that were the case, God would not get all the credit for the increase in His Church.
Like what? Deceitful cabbages and deceitful prairie dogs?
You are really amusing when you try to dodge an obvious truth of scripture.
If only you believed even that...
Jesus is clearly saying that man is NOT good. No one. And the Jewish crowd freaked out when Jesus commented that the best of the Jews, materially blessed and taught by the scriptures from childhood, had less of a chance of squeezing into eternal life than a camel had to squeeze through the tiny eye of a needle. (Some people like to make it all about rich people but the context makes clear that such goodness is impossible for anyone.)
Luke18:26-27 And those who heard it said, “Who then can be saved?” But He said, “The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.”
Rom9:16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
So like the blind squirrel finding an acorn, you would be correct if you truly believed that the goodness to obey God's command to repent and believe could only come from God Himself...
It's generally supposed to be a warning. God doesn't just see how badly you act, He even knows your evil intentions.
It's like when you read Psalm24:3-4 Who may ascend into the hill of the Lord? Or who may stand in His holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart...
You are arrogant enough to assume this is about you and your clean hands, but it's actually about the Messiah, Jesus. We need Him because He is the only one who is actually good...who has clean hands and may ascend to the hill of the Lord.
You say we are both flesh and spirit but the scriptures say that we are spiritually dead, and need to be made alive before we can accept Him (John14:17). "Only that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." The word in John3:8 translated as wind is the same word for the Spirit, who goes wherever He chooses. You think that you made your spirit to live, but that is unscriptural.
John3:5-8 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Eph2:1-10 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
I would like to see that – it's madness to think that Paul's boasting in other's obedience as something wrought by God Himself (John3:21) makes it ok for you to boast in yours. Paul boasts in his God, who sought him as a foolish lost sheep even as Paul was still breathing threats and murder against the Church.
2Cor11:22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they ministers of Christ?—I speak as a fool—I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often....30 If I must boast, I will boast in the things which concern my infirmity.
Gal6:14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
You boast in your faith as if you really deserve all the credit for it. You think you were smart enough and spiritual enough to seek after God, so why can't other people step up? Paul specifically forbids boasting about believing because God's choice is sovereign and it is because of Him that we are in Christ Jesus.
1Cor1:26-31 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Amen.
As sinful creatures, we must keep our eyes upon the obedience of Jesus Christ, and rest totally in His righteousness, for we have none of our own.
Our obedience, worked by faith in Christ, is only the spiritual result of what He achieved as our federal representative and Saviour.
All glory for any holiness that becomes evident in our lives, goes to Him.
Soli Deo Gloria!