Bob's pre-fall baby claims
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soothsayer
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I thought that before the Fall, God was in the business of creating people from using Adam's rib. I understood that the very process of "birth" was a result of the Fall.
Longer periods of gestation for babies were required for Adam and Eve’s harsh new environment outside of the garden. Births in the Garden of Eden would have been painless had Adam and Eve been allowed to stay.
Genesis 3:
16 To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“ Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”
20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.
Genesis 3:
16 To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“ Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”
20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.
its circular reasoning.
the bible says the world was created good.
people brought bad things into the world.
god said youre all going to have multiplied baby processes.
so before the bad stuff arrived babies were delivered in a good way.
after the bad stuff babies were delivered in a painful way.
so if all that is given then a sensible explanation is that babies before were smaller and able to survive in a good world. babies after were bigger so that they could survive in a bad world.
if you dont accept the biblical account then taking any one of those stages will seem impossible to you. if you accept all of them then it makes perfect sense. its as simple as that.
accept or reject the bibles account.
the bible says the world was created good.
people brought bad things into the world.
god said youre all going to have multiplied baby processes.
so before the bad stuff arrived babies were delivered in a good way.
after the bad stuff babies were delivered in a painful way.
so if all that is given then a sensible explanation is that babies before were smaller and able to survive in a good world. babies after were bigger so that they could survive in a bad world.
if you dont accept the biblical account then taking any one of those stages will seem impossible to you. if you accept all of them then it makes perfect sense. its as simple as that.
accept or reject the bibles account.
wholearmor
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I haven't seen anyone address the passage in Genesis that states God said He would greatly increase woman's pain in childbirth after The Fall. Doesn't that indicate there would have been pain in childbirth before The Fall had there been any births?
which book? the bible? it says very little about the environment other than "it was good" and very little about gestation other than "it got more painful". if you cant squeeze any good situation into that broad definition of the environment and any change in gestation into that observation on childbirth then you need to work on your imagination .. like bob's obviously done a bit of.Johnny said:
or were you speaking metaphorically about popular science? in which case the book(s) could use some well thought through re-writing...
er .. so you were asking that? ok .. well then .. back to the diagrams.Granite said:
smaller babies cause less pain in childbirth than large babies. mum carried around two 8pound (eventually) babies for 9 months before giving birth to my younger brothers. im sure she would have found it a lot more convenient and less painful in a 'good' environment where the babies could be delivered naturally and safely after (say) 3 months...
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