Being politically correct harms Transgenders?

[Lon]

Unless my memory is wrong, you don't have a degree in psychology.

I assumed it wasn't yours.

No idea what you mean by that unless you're a nurse. I thought you were a history teacher?

I've two degrees, both requiring psychology courses and I did very well in them.

You say assertion, I say anecdote.

disinviting

How did we arrive at Jerry Garcia?

:sigh: ? lain: ? :doh: ?

I assume you posted the OP for discussion, and I'm doing my part. Bias is an important consideration, and it's important in this consideration.

For all of us. This isn't in the religion section, but I assume God is right.

You found someone who supports your bias, that's fine - but I'm going to point out that bias for the record, if nothing else.

I'm not sure you read my OP without a bias of your own. I asked if the doctor was a voice crying in the media-driven aberrant minority-heavy television and movie wilderness.

The coercive kind of therapy advocated by the likes of aCW will do more harm than good to an individual, family isn't necessarily equipped to be involved in counseling, and not all counselors are qualified. I can only imagine the pressures brought to bear on a young person in such a situation... I'm reminded of the really heartbreaking video on youtube of the young man who comes out to his family and the abuse he receives from them as a result. I'll see if I can find it.

Find one where the family is running an intervention for drug addiction, another where the family is visiting their child in prison, and another where they are seeing one dying in the hospital who smoked against the family's wishes as well? Again, I'm interested in what is 'best' for an individual, not what is expedient and 'lovingly' indulgent. I see that as a horrible bias too.

 

[Lon]

There's some cussing in the video.

I'm wondering what family counseling would be like in this situation. Much more complex than what you seem to think.

I didn't watch it. My interest would be a biblical approach. The world will deal with these as best they can but our immediate need and any associated problem is Spiritual. That has to be said up front.

 

[annabenedetti]

I assumed it wasn't yours.

I've two degrees, both requiring psychology courses and I did very well in them.

So was I right? You're a history teacher?

disinviting

?

For all of us. This isn't in the religion section, but I assume God is right.

Not everyone believes in God, Lon. You can't approach everyone as if they do so that all your God-based arguments will be the last word.

I'm not sure you read my OP without a bias of your own.

I never claimed to be free from bias. Everyone has biases.

I asked if the doctor was a voice crying in the media-driven aberrant minority-heavy television and movie wilderness.

You said he was "without bias as far as I can tell."

Do you still think he's without bias?

Find one where the family is running an intervention for drug addiction, another where the family is visiting their child in prison, and another where they are seeing one dying in the hospital who smoked against the family's wishes as well? Again, I'm interested in what is 'best' for an individual, not what is expedient and 'lovingly' indulgent. I see that as a horrible bias too.

I suggest we stick to the subject of the OP.

 

[annabenedetti]

I didn't watch it. My interest would be a biblical approach. The world will deal with these as best they can but our immediate need and any associated problem is Spiritual. That has to be said up front.

How convenient for you.

By the way, the family is using what they believe is a biblical approach.

 

[Crucible]

By the way, the family is using what they believe is a biblical approach.

The biblical approach would be to tell the child that as long as he is under their roof, there will not be any of that period. If the child wants to leave, then let them leave.
The Bible says to raise them in the way they should go- it is not a Christians duty to accept sin, especially from a child who is supposed to honor their parents- the liberal minded today are completely backwards, almost acting as if the parents are supposed to bring honor to them, and accommodate their values in their home.
:nono:

 

[Lon]

So was I right? You're a history teacher?

:nono:

Not everyone believes in God, Lon. You can't approach everyone as if they do so that all your God-based arguments will be the last word.

It is the only arena in which I would give counseling. However, I would take a conservative rather than liberal and untested as an approach if I did. It is important for this discussion to note that Sweden transgenders, where they are about the best accepted, yet shows a 2300% (23x's) increase in suicide among all other teens. We are desperately doing something wrong (or at least they are).

I never claimed to be free from bias. Everyone has biases.

I'm still working over this from a Biblical perspective simply because I don't think God is biased.

You said he was "without bias as far as I can tell."

Do you still think he's without bias?

We can be biased in treatment without being biased toward a particular type of person. I am not sure I'd call trying to apply the 'best' for a person a bias. We generally think of bias as inequality.

I suggest we stick to the subject of the OP.

My point was that bringing in a video trying to show problems with a dysfunctional family doesn't mean that individual isn't causing the dysfunction. After that, wasn't this video you gave about a gay child rather than transgender?

How convenient for you.

Philippians 4:8

By the way, the family is using what they believe is a biblical approach.

With coarse language???

 

[annabenedetti]

:nono:

I'm pretty sure you've said before you were a teacher, I don't know why you're being coy about it now but that's fine.

It is the only arena in which I would give counseling. However, I would take a conservative rather than liberal and untested as an approach if I did. It is important for this discussion to note that Sweden transgenders, where they are about the best accepted, yet shows a 2300% (23x's) increase in suicide among all other teens. We are desperately doing something wrong (or at least they are).

It's your last words there that could be part of the problem.

I'm still working over this from a Biblical perspective simply because I don't think God is biased.

Since not everyone who seeks treatment believes in God, I don't think that line of reasoning is going to help, we might as well drop it.

We can be biased in treatment without being biased toward a particular type of person. I am not sure I'd call trying to apply the 'best' for a person a bias. We generally think of bias as inequality.

That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the OP source has a bias. You're wandering all around pretending you don't see the elephant but you keep bumping into him.

My point was that bringing in a video trying to show problems with a dysfunctional family doesn't mean that individual isn't causing the dysfunction. After that, wasn't this video you gave about a gay child rather than transgender?

Yes, but I'm connecting it to the idea of family counseling you were talking about in your prior post.

With coarse language???

Uh, yeah.

 

[Lon]

I'm pretty sure you've said before you were a teacher, I don't know why you're being coy about it now but that's fine.

I have an MA. You didn't ask. Coy is simply between us, I suspect, who is more qualified for psychology discussion? At least that's about how you started it as to whether to listen to me or not. If I am a bank teller then all bets were off, I'd imagine. I thought you were a nurse so perhaps it is a pointless conversation all the way around at that point. I don't believe I started this conversation this way. So rather than 'coy' think perhaps attacked and aloof from giving more fodder, though I just did... Both the MA and BA required a good amount of psychology and sociology and I did very well in those classes, in fact so much so in a few that I was encouraged to pursue it by my profs.

It's your last words there that could be part of the problem.

With Sweden employing pretty much the same then, as we are endeavoring now? I don't think so at this point.

Since not everyone who seeks treatment believes in God, I don't think that line of reasoning is going to help, we might as well drop it.

Which is why I gave his position as well. If enough reports and papers are published as to any counterfactuals, it might help hedge social politics and agenda driving public opinion.

That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the OP source has a bias. You're wandering all around pretending you don't see the elephant but you keep bumping into him.

As I've said, I read a few of his detractors before posting the OP. They didn't do much but quote him without really saying anything in response or counter to what he said. Such makes it seem rather pop-psychology obvious. That too can be bias, but substance should be quickly available and it is not.

Yes, but I'm connecting it to the idea of family counseling you were talking about in your prior post.

So we both aren't really wanting to delve into peripherals. Mine is mostly because you gave the warning label

Uh, yeah.

It doesn't happen in my family. I try to steer away from it unless I have to wade through it for a higher purpose. I generally just don't.

 

[Derf]

Not everyone believes in God, Lon. You can't approach everyone as if they do so that all your God-based arguments will be the last word.

Sorry for jumping in on your conversation with Lon, but this astounds me a bit. Are you suggesting that we only treat people with what they think will work, not what is the truth?

Imagine for a minute that an alcoholic asks for help overcoming his drinking problem, but will only accept solutions that include imbibing in large amounts of alcohol, because he "doesn't believe in abstinence".

Rather, if God made humans, and gave instructions for how they should behave so that they will "live long in the land" (Eph 6:23), should we ignore what He said and imagine a vain thing (Ps 2:1) to help us to live long a different way? That sounds eerily like what Adam and Eve did, choosing a shortcut to knowledge instead of God's less "convenient" path--the broad path vs the narrow one.

If we then decide to acquiesce to the alcoholic and give him the only treatment he accepts, don't we set him on the path of destruction ourselves?

 

[Stripe]

I sure hope you aren't still pretending you're a rational person.

Wait.

You accused me of "forcing" my "religion" on people.

What force? What religion?

 

[eider]

A very distorted OP, yes?
The views of a solitary out-of-date quack, unsupported by his more modern peers, using fragments of info in a subjective point.
The reason why so many lgbtqia folks commit suicide is because of the attitudes of their unsupportive prejudiced bigoted families.
What is truly great to see is how sp many Big C Christian countries are now legislating for gay civil partnerships and marriages. Colombia is the latest along with three other Latin American countries.
Here is Europe we are tearing down barriers and opposing manic prejudices such as those that can be seen in threads like this.
Such views of not survive long here, where anti discrimination laws are strong and tough.

 

[eider]

When Paul wrote this, only the Old Testament was considered to be scripture:

2 Timothy 3:16 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:​

Is the law I quoted profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, or instruction in righteousness?

Deuteronomy 22:5 5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.​

Sure it is.

It is profitable for the Christian church to have a doctrine that prohibits cross-dressing.
It is profitable for the Christian church to reprove and correct members that cross-dress.
It is profitable for the Christian church to instruct its members that cross-dressing is not righteous.

So, what is your problem?

That is a totally subjective approach.
So you ask, which of God's laws is good for us?.... Then you cherry pick and apply, just as Paul did!

That cannot be right. You either acknowledge the OT laws or not, all 613 of them!
Jesus did not want to change any, but you cherry pick?
You either follow Jesus, or that contract busting mania Paul, surely?

 

[eider]

Sorry for jumping in on your conversation with Lon, but this astounds me a bit. Are you suggesting that we only treat people with what they think will work, not what is the truth?

Imagine for a minute that an alcoholic asks for help overcoming his drinking problem, but will only accept solutions that include imbibing in large amounts of alcohol, because he "doesn't believe in abstinence".

Rather, if God made humans, and gave instructions for how they should behave so that they will "live long in the land" (Eph 6:23), should we ignore what He said and imagine a vain thing (Ps 2:1) to help us to live long a different way? That sounds eerily like what Adam and Eve did, choosing a shortcut to knowledge instead of God's less "convenient" path--the broad path vs the narrow one.

If we then decide to acquiesce to the alcoholic and give him the only treatment he accepts, don't we set him on the path of destruction ourselves?

You class transgender and transsexuality as similar to alcoholism?
What a twisted mindset!

Do you have the love of Jrsus, or the manic hatreds of Paul?

Many Churches, Creeds and Denominations now accept lgbtqia sexualities and civil partnerships and Gay marriages are supported. It could be time for Cold Puritan Christianity to come into the warmth of True Jesus followers?

 

[annabenedetti]

Wait.

Do you need a break from your irrationality?

You accused me of "forcing" my "religion" on people.

What force? What religion?

1. You would if you could:

ViView Poll Results: Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?


2. When someone says "it's not okay to be gay" to someone who thinks otherwise - particularly when in a position authority over the other person - then that's forcing religious beliefs. WRT you personally (don't pretend your religious beliefs aren't your guiding authority), are you saying that if your child came out to you as gay, you wouldn't bring down the full force of your parental authority?

 

[HisServant]

Many Churches, Creeds and Denominations now accept lgbtqia sexualities and civil partnerships and Gay marriages are supported. It could be time for Cold Puritan Christianity to come into the warmth of True Jesus followers?

Hey look... everyone has lost their minds and are jumping off bridges.. I guess its OK and we should do it to!

What stupid logic. Scripture is not negotiable.

Churches should welcome them, but at the same time churches should never accept what they are doing as wholesome and normal.

 

[annabenedetti]

Sorry for jumping in on your conversation with Lon, but this astounds me a bit. Are you suggesting that we only treat people with what they think will work, not what is the truth?

Are you suggesting that psychologists should treat their clients using Biblical admonitions? They can't do that unless they've specifically positioned themselves to be a Christian counselor and make that clear to all prospective clients.

 

[ok doser]

worth a repeat for the bananahead:

The Constitution protects us from people who would otherwise force their religious beliefs on people who don't share them. my religious beliefs tell me that it's wrong for innocent children to be murdered in the womb my religious beliefs tell me that it's wrong to molest and abuse children my religious beliefs tell me that it's wrong to rape women my religious beliefs tell me that it's wrong to steal, to lie, to commit adultery... other people don't share those beliefs according to you, i shouldn't force my beliefs on them :kookoo:

 

[annabenedetti]

I have an MA. You didn't ask.

I wasn't interested in your degrees other than whether they were in psychology.

Coy is simply between us, I suspect, who is more qualified for psychology discussion? At least that's about how you started it as to whether to listen to me or not. If I am a bank teller then all bets were off, I'd imagine. I thought you were a nurse so perhaps it is a pointless conversation all the way around at that point. I don't believe I started this conversation this way. So rather than 'coy' think perhaps attacked and aloof from giving more fodder, though I just did... Both the MA and BA required a good amount of psychology and sociology and I did very well in those classes, in fact so much so in a few that I was encouraged to pursue it by my profs.

It's simply this: you can't speak as an expert if you aren't an expert. You can point to experts (as you did) and then you can offer opinion and discussion (as you did). In turn, I can do the same. I told you that: we all have opinions or we wouldn't be posting here, so that's not the point I'm trying to make.You have a habit of positioning yourself as an authority in just about anything because you have a degree in something. Perhaps you could consider your motivation for doing that sometime. Just a thought.

Which is why I gave his position as well. If enough reports and papers are published as to any counterfactuals, it might help hedge social politics and agenda driving public opinion.

As I've said, I read a few of his detractors before posting the OP. They didn't do much but quote him without really saying anything in response or counter to what he said. Such makes it seem rather pop-psychology obvious. That too can be bias, but substance should be quickly available and it is not.

And as I've said, your source has a bias, when "as far as you could see," he didn't. But he's definitely coming to the table with a bias, driven by orthodox religious belief and conservative cultural values, and he makes sweeping judgments through those lenses. He's educated, yes. He's likely quite brilliant. (I noted he was partly responsible for the MMSE, so that was kind of cool). That doesn't make him correct in everything he says. I wonder if you'd admit to that much.

So we both aren't really wanting to delve into peripherals. Mine is mostly because you gave the warning label

It depends on the peripheral. For the record, you first mentioned gay parents and children in post #28. I don't mind going into sidebars, but I do discriminate as to when and why I do.

It doesn't happen in my family. I try to steer away from it unless I have to wade through it for a higher purpose. I generally just don't.

Again, that's convenient. Life is messy. The people you so blithely dismiss with the word "whim" and therapists with "indulge" and "pop psychology" have to deal with messy all the time. You don't have to get your hands dirty, but while you're standing clear (above) it all, maybe try not to be so condescending while you're at it.

 

[annabenedetti]

:chuckle: Especially since he didn't even post in this thread.

Apparently he thanked without going through Nick's approval process.

 

[ok doser]

You have a habit of positioning yourself as an authority ....

can you show where he did that in this thread?