Atheists, do you hope you're right?

[Jamie Gigliotti]

I have never been a hateful person, even through my 17 years of agnosticism. I have a very empathetic nature towards others even when things are not going so well for me. But as a younger agnostic I did feel a certain amount of futility. Nowadays I can switch back and forth from a theistic perspective and an agnostic perspective and still not lose sight of what is important. Theism might have just been a tool for me to reach that, but again it is what it is. Keep in mind I have studied many religions as well.

How the 5 major religions spread.

I have never thought of myself as hateful either and I have always desired to be a good person. Without wanting to go into specifics here. I was wronged severely by several people. I was able to forgive and love with God's help one individual and for a time and then I was wronged in a very painful way. My pain was immense... I was furious with God, foolishly as well. I pushed him away completely and revenge crossed my mind many times. The darkness overtook me literally, I was overcome by anxiety, anger, hurt, despair. Me and my family suffered immensly. Jesus said 'the truth shall set you free' and it wasn't until after a year of literal Hell did I finally turn to Him again and found freedom from those chains that were literally killing me. Me trusting him and His loving presence and His way of love have brought me the peace my heart has always desired.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

The problem with this is it doesn't explain those many people who say the same, but Attribute it to a different religion that has nothing to do with Christianity or Jesus. Nor does it explain how people with no religion at all can make big changes for the better, without any supernatural intervention.

This has been put to you many times now yet you choose not to address it. Until you do, with a plausible explanation, your point above remains moot. Whether you accept it or not the existence of the Christian God has not been established. Preaching warm and fuzzies proves nothing.

I have studied other religions as well and none teach the love between us and our Father, whose image we are made in. Obviously we believe God the Father is the same God that was revealed to Abraham and the Jewish people, just that they reject the more intimate revelation of Jesus and the reconciliation we experience to God through him and the indwelling of the presence of God we recieve through His Grace and love and our surrender to him.

 

[Hedshaker]

I have studied other religions as well and none teach the love between us and our Father, whose image we are made in. Obviously we believe God the Father is the same God that was revealed to Abraham and the Jewish people, just that they reject the more intimate revelation of Jesus and the reconciliation we experience to God through him and the indwelling of the presence of God we recieve through His Grace and love and our surrender to him.

Yes but the followers of Hinduism, Seek-ism, Islam and all the many world religions say the same about their deity, their hero figure, their faith. You all seem to have the one true religion. Maybe you think all the other's have it wrong while you have it right, but the other's all think the same about their faiths.

You can't all be right but you can all be wrong, which certainly appears to be the case from the outside looking in.

 

[noguru]

I have studied other religions as well and none teach the love between us and our Father, whose image we are made in. Obviously we believe God the Father is the same God that was revealed to Abraham and the Jewish people, just that they reject the more intimate revelation of Jesus and the reconciliation we experience to God through him and the indwelling of the presence of God we recieve through His Grace and love and our surrender to him.

I disagree. I find Buddhism to be a great tool in finding that peace in the midst of a storm. There is a seeming paradox in Buddhism that one must experience in order to actually realize it is no paradox. Non attachment seems to be rather cold and callous. But when it is achieved through the middle way, it actually brings a feeling of great connection with our surroundings and the people around us. I think that Jesus ministry and Buddhist practices have much in common, I have always felt this way. I have not been so sure of the claims of deity and personal independent eternal life that "orthodox" believers seem to hold as an essential part of Christianity. It is debatable that this is what Jesus meant.

 

[DoogieTalons]

Not do you think you're right--do you hope that you are right that there is no God and therefore no ultimate justice in the afterlife?

Weird question. Do I hope I am right. I guess as an Atheist I don't care if I am right. It's not about being right.

If you are not allowing the answer that I know I am right then the only possible answer to the question is I don't care.

Right or Wrong

If I am right and there is no God then I will be as aware of the last billion years of the universe as I was the first. Death has no meaning, only life.

If I am wrong then I will wonder what God will greet us. You guys are not the only one's who think your god is the only god and every other god is a lie.

I can hope that Christians are wrong, I wouldn't want to meet the God of the bible... Imagine that, a petty, immature all powerful yet jealous being. Butthurt enough to torture me for infinity simply because I didn't believe the cry baby existed.

The god of the bible allows slavery, dashing babies against rocks, killing thousands of innocents... the list goes on. Imagine if this dude is real ha ha what a turn up I'd rather roast than prostrate myself beneath him.. which would ironically mean he gave me more self respect than was good for me.

Oh and Sherman, if the only rebuke you have against the ridicule of the fairytale you believe in is a swift banning, then you really shouldn't be a MOD, it shows you have not the intelligence nor emotional maturity to maintain a board. It actually shows you know you're wrong and the rampant banning is the same response as a 5 year old sticking their fingers in their ears and singing la la la at the top of their voices.

I do not have to show respect for Christianity on a Christian board. The very fact you allow Atheists n the board means you must be open to an opposing view, even if that view treats your world view as a comedy platform.

 

[chrysostom]

I can hope that Christians are wrong,

why not hope for something you would like?

do you have a reasonable explanation as to why we are here?

 

[bybee]

Weird question. Do I hope I am right. I guess as an Atheist I don't care if I am right. It's not about being right.

If you are not allowing the answer that I know I am right then the only possible answer to the question is I don't care.

Right or Wrong

If I am right and there is no God then I will be as aware of the last billion years of the universe as I was the first. Death has no meaning, only life.

If I am wrong then I will wonder what God will greet us. You guys are not the only one's who think your god is the only god and every other god is a lie.

I can hope that Christians are wrong, I wouldn't want to meet the God of the bible... Imagine that, a petty, immature all powerful yet jealous being. Butthurt enough to torture me for infinity simply because I didn't believe the cry baby existed.

The god of the bible allows slavery, dashing babies against rocks, killing thousands of innocents... the list goes on. Imagine if this dude is real ha ha what a turn up I'd rather roast than prostrate myself beneath him.. which would ironically mean he gave me more self respect than was good for me.

That is one way to look at the data. Do use caution in expressing yourself. Some of us look at the data another way and we are not amused by blasphemy.
Our understanding of The Creator has evolved from punitive law giver to Savior.

 

[alwight]

I considered myself a Christian my whole life and held to the Bibles words the whole time. It wasn't until I personally trusted Jesus and experienced His presence that my life changed.

I've never been a Christian, though at one time many years ago I may have accepted that a "Christian" was what I was if asked.
The fact that you however, having lived by the Bible all your life, will credit Jesus for digging you out of a presumably bad situation doesn't really surprise me at all tbh.
I don't know specifically what, if anything, you think that Jesus actually did for you but I do know that many very deserving people who should get some special help but don't.lain:

I've never understood why some Christians believe that Jesus helped them find their car keys but will allow innocent babies to suffer. :liberals:

 

[Hawkins]

If you are willing to reason to a deeper layer, you may find that Christianity is completely different from any other religions. All the following are logical necessities in a step-by-step approach. Each one exists as an inevitable necessity for the achieving of an ultimate goal.


God's Ultimate Plan is to build an eternity called Heave where entities with freewill such as angels and humans will live forever with God who is completely incompatible with sin.
To achieve the above,

Eden is a necessity
Planet Earth is a necessity
Even Satan is a necessity (he acts as a magnet to firmly hold the unqualified and to let go the qualified for God to pick up)

God's Law is a necessity
God's Grace and covenants are a necessity
Jesus Christ is a necessity (no one can enter Heaven without Christ)
God's hiding behind without showing up is a necessity
Judgment is a necessity (to judge who shall enter Heaven)

Paradise is a necessity (to hold humans souls of the saved)
Hades/sheol is a necessity (to hold the human souls of the unsaved)
Abyss is a necessity (to hold the spirits of the fallen angels)

At last but not least,
Immortal soul is arguably necessary
hell is arguably necessary

 

[Tyrathca]

That is one way to look at the data. Do use caution in expressing yourself. Some of us look at the data another way and we are not amused by blasphemy.
Our understanding of The Creator has evolved from punitive law giver to Savior.

Yes but unless you have an unusual philosophy on religion you can't run away from that punitive law giver origins. Much of the bible (especially old testament) is filed with it. To claim the Savior narrative exclusively is a cop out that ignores your religions origins and original stories of god not to mention 2 millennia of interpretation of something which supposedly hasn't changed in that time yet has.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

I disagree. I find Buddhism to be a great tool in finding that peace in the midst of a storm. There is a seeming paradox in Buddhism that one must experience in order to actually realize it is no paradox. Non attachment seems to be rather cold and callous. But when it is achieved through the middle way, it actually brings a feeling of great connection with our surroundings and the people around us. I think that Jesus ministry and Buddhist practices have much in common, I have always felt this way. I have not been so sure of the claims of deity and personal independent eternal life that "orthodox" believers seem to hold as an essential part of Christianity. It is debatable that this is what Jesus meant.

I have found momentary peace by other means, but not peace that lasts while I am in trusting mode, His love and forgiveness mode. I regress at times and rely on myself and find fear, anxiety are always ready to rear their ugly heads. Thank God I'm learning to rely upon Him more, trust Him more and those times are fewer and far between.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Yes but the followers of Hinduism, Seek-ism, Islam and all the many world religions say the same about their deity, their hero figure, their faith. You all seem to have the one true religion. Maybe you think all the other's have it wrong while you have it right, but the other's all think the same about their faiths.

You can't all be right but you can all be wrong, which certainly appears to be the case from the outside looking in.

And interestingly the close personal unconditional love we all desire and need is exactly what Christianity is all about; that many have testified to have found.

 

[Granite]

And interestingly the close personal unconditional love we all desire and need is exactly what Christianity is all about; that many have testified to have found.

You seem to be deliberately or unwittingly missing the point: You may well have found happiness and peace but it's not unique to Christianity.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

I've never been a Christian, though at one time many years ago I may have accepted that a "Christian" was what I was if asked.
The fact that you however, having lived by the Bible all your life, will credit Jesus for digging you out of a presumably bad situation doesn't really surprise me at all tbh.
I don't know specifically what, if anything, you think that Jesus actually did for you but I do know that many very deserving people who should get some special help but don't.lain:

I've never understood why some Christians believe that Jesus helped them find their car keys but will allow innocent babies to suffer. :liberals:

It is all about love. He filled my heart with His love. He allows free will to create free, true love.

 

[bybee]

Yes but unless you have an unusual philosophy on religion you can't run away from that punitive law giver origins. Much of the bible (especially old testament) is filed with it. To claim the Savior narrative exclusively is a cop out that ignores your religions origins and original stories of god not to mention 2 millennia of interpretation of something which supposedly hasn't changed in that time yet has.

All over the world humanity has and is evolving in understanding.
So, I'd agree we cannot undo history,but looking back may teach us what to avoid and what to promote?
We see how far we have come and how far we have yet to go.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

You seem to be deliberately or unwittingly missing the point: You may well have found happiness and peace but it's not unique to Christianity.

Personal, intimate love between us and God is. Why do you think solitary confinement is such a hated thing? Many more are searching for love than peace, although perfect love is the way to lasting peace.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

I've never been a Christian, though at one time many years ago I may have accepted that a "Christian" was what I was if asked.
The fact that you however, having lived by the Bible all your life, will credit Jesus for digging you out of a presumably bad situation doesn't really surprise me at all tbh.
I don't know specifically what, if anything, you think that Jesus actually did for you but I do know that many very deserving people who should get some special help but don't.lain:

I've never understood why some Christians believe that Jesus helped them find their car keys but will allow innocent babies to suffer. :liberals:

Not sure if you got my point that attempts to live by laws, to live by words, by doctrine, by dogma, were futile. It was only through my trust in Jesus and my fellowship with Him through the Holy Spirit that I found freedom.

 

[noguru]

I have found momentary peace by other means, but not peace that lasts while I am in trusting mode, His love and forgiveness mode. I regress at times and rely on myself and find fear, anxiety are always ready to rear their ugly heads. Thank God I'm learning to rely upon Him more, trust Him more and those times are fewer and far between.

I would suggest that you are really not relying on yourself at all then.

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[Granite]

Personal, intimate love between us and God is. Why do you think solitary confinement is such a hated thing? Many more are searching for love than peace, although perfect love is the way to lasting peace.

I stand by my previous "bot" statement and take my leave of this thread.:salute:

 

[Hedshaker]

And interestingly the close personal unconditional love we all desire and need is exactly what Christianity is all about; that many have testified to have found.

There isn't anything specifically unique about the Christian religion, it just happens to be the one that you were born into and captivated by. If you had been born in a different part of the world it would likely be Allah or Hari Krishna or one of the many deities believed in by people across the planet.

Yes, I know you sincerely believe that yours is the one-and-only true god but, can you not understand that others believe the same about their beliefs, and their sincerity and convictions are equal to yours in every way. And what's more, few of you seem able to agree on the finer points even within your own faiths. There are currently over 30, 000 denominations (and counting) in Christianity alone.

This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.