ECT Are we born sinless? Pelagianism and semi-pelagianism
- Thread starter Lon
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Shasta
Well-known member
It seems that Jerry has not yet unveiled some of his other theses such as
1. Every child is conceived with the life of the Holy Spirit (just as believers possess spiritual life after they are born again) and they keep it until they sin
2. There is no tendency to sin in human children until the age of accountability.
3. All righteous people before the cross were "born again"
1. Every child is conceived with the life of the Holy Spirit (just as believers possess spiritual life after they are born again) and they keep it until they sin
2. There is no tendency to sin in human children until the age of accountability.
3. All righteous people before the cross were "born again"
“And angels that kept not their own principality, but left their proper habitation, he hath kept in everlasting bonds under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, having in like manner with these given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.”
??Jude? ?1:6-7? ?ASV??
http://bible.com/12/jud.1.6-7.asv
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glorydaz
Well-known member
Just because you don' get it, doesn't mean you have to advertise your ignorance.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Bring your active imagination into check. Unnatural lusts and perversions actually suit the bill without going outside the box.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Good question, obviously I must clarify what I said. As I John clearly points out, we do sin, but, do we sin to the degree and frequency that we did before? That is, can we lie to one another less? Can we quit stealing? Ephesians 4:28 and replace that stealing with something else? Can we learn to be more spiritually minded and less carnally minded? Can we do what Romans 12:11 says, not slothful in business, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord? If we can, and God's word states clearly that we can, we should get busy doing theses things and attend to doing God's word and will instead of man's word and will.
We most certainly can learn to walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing for God's word exhorts us to do so.
Yet we will not reach a state of sinless perfection until
I Thessalonians 4:13-18,
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
I Corinthians 13:10-12
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.,
and I John 3:1-3
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Can we purify ourselves? Yes we can.
Will we achieve total purity by our efforts? No, but as I John 3:2b states,
but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
So, we will sin, but will we decide to remain carnally minded and sin as before or will be work to become spiritually minded and improve our lives according to what God desires for us to do?
Generally, we can handle one major issue at a time, in one moment. Maybe we are working on Ephesians 4:28, we can concentrate on that because we see that is a real issue in our lives, but can we concentrate on that and do all the other truths we should be doing all at the same moment? No, we must prioritize and work on the big issues, as we are improving in that area, we will find ourselves still messing up in some other areas.
But we take heart for light dispels darkness and we can lighten up the dark corners of our hearts and lives though we may only be able to do so one corner at at time, (doing it well and throughly)
glorydaz
Well-known member
Your insinuations are duly noted as to where your mind resides.
dodge
New member
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Again, let us look at this verse and wecan see that "all men" die spiritually when they sin:
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Ro.5:12).
Since "all men" die spiritually when they sin that means that "all men" were alive spiritually before they died spiritually. And the only way that can happen is that all people emerge from the womb spiritually alive.
I never said that. Instead, it is not until a person knows what is right and wrong in the eyes of God that their sin will be imputed to them.
All righteous people before and after the Cross have been born again. They will all enter the kingdom and no one can enter the kingdom unless they are born again.
glorydaz
Well-known member
We say "Whoa whoa whoa..." in my neck of the woods.
We don't even speak the same language.
No wonder we clash.
SinapisZeg4
New member
Haven't read all prior posts, so forgive me if this has been touched upon (I'm going largely off the recent scripture compendium given for both sides)
What of the fact given that God is no respecter of persons? Paul hammerd the point home at various points. Don't children fall under the supertype of persons?
What of the fact given that God is no respecter of persons? Paul hammerd the point home at various points. Don't children fall under the supertype of persons?
:chuckle: He's the Hawaiian Menace
:rotfl: That strikes me as funny
That is awesome! I hope your joking.
“For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;”
??2 Peter? ?2:4? ?ESV??
http://bible.com/59/2pe.2.4.esv
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Infants have a need for Jesus
Short for isolate passages from their overall narrative, scope and context, and then proceed from there to read things into them.
Except when it does.