An Introduction

[ChrisGergen]

I disagree completely - as do many scholars with each other. Clearly neither of us are scholars (I know I don't claim to be - I only claimed to be educated, not scholarly). What is it with you Christians that you feel you must disparage those that disagree by insinuating or boldly stating the other is ignorant or stupid? Such action is not helpful and no good conversation could ever be had as a result.

John could not have been written that late and still have John as your author - he'd be too old - close to or over 100. All of the text in both Revelation and John suggest that the former was written before 70 CE and the latter after 70 CE. I have not read a secular scholar who has dates different than these and this is where I get my information on this point. Your point is probably taken from Christian scholars, while not lacking in education or intellect, they lack objectivity because their findings are screened through there own personal tradition and bias. The same argument could be made for the secular scholar except the secular scholar has nothing to lose if he finds for one date over another - especially if he is genuinely looking for the truth and not looking to confirm tradition.

 

[chickenman]

This has got to be one of the best, if not THE best, intro thread I've seen around here (in terms of liveliness).

Welcome to TOL, Chris.

 

[Stripe]

What's going on in here then, eh?

 

[ChrisGergen]

Apparently, I made a splash with the moderators yesterday or the day before and a dog pile started.

Basically I had help from a few folks, won some respect from others and completely upset some.

Pretty good talk. I no longer have any doubt how the Crusades started. The Christians got upset and killed everyone who didn't agree...

Have a good one -

 

[Stripe]

Apparently, I made a splash with the moderators yesterday or the day before and a dog pile started.

Basically I had help from a few folks, won some respect from others and completely pissed off some.

Pretty good talk. I no longer have any doubt how the Crusades started. The Christians got upset and killed everyone who didn't agree...

Have a good one -

Oh. So you're being a moron and are now crying about it.

Can someone ban this Koban wannabe so we can get on with our lives?

 

[ChrisGergen]

Do what? Why did you say something rude like that?

 

[Granite]

Do what? Why did you say something rude like that?

Chris, I'd get used to that attitude if you have any interest in staying here.

 

[ChrisGergen]

Granite: It was just a shock is all.

Did what I say seem offensive?

As a non-believing person I find Christians to be the meanest people I know. Far removed from their Christ. I think it was Ghandi (I could be wrong) which said, 'Your Christ I like. Your Christians I don't.' (or something along those lines).

 

[Granite]

Granite: It was just a shock is all.

Did what I say seem offensive?

As a non-believing person I find Christians to be the meanest people I know. Far removed from their Christ. I think it was Ghandi (I could be wrong) which said, 'Your Christ I like. Your Christians I don't.' (or something along those lines).

Understood, and I appreciate your sentiment. I think you were trying to head off possible confusion or accusations by providing some of your background and were completely misunderstood by a few folks here.

 

[Stripe]

Granite: It was just a shock is all.

Try only holding one wire at a time.

Did what I say seem offensive?

Oh, asserting that Christians might kill people for disagreeing probably did it. Or you could just smell bad.

As a non-believing person I find Christians to be the meanest people I know.

You're in the right place then, you great crybaby. :baby:

Far removed from their Christ. I think it was Ghandi (I could be wrong) which said, 'Your Christ I like. Your Christians I don't.' (or something along those lines).

:blabla:

 

[ChrisGergen]

Christians have killed people for disagreement - Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Protestants.

What have I said that was untrue?

And no one's crying - surely not me.

And all you have to say is Blah...what an expansive and articulate individual you must be.

 

[ChrisGergen]

Town Heretic:

Thanks for the heads up...I fixed it...

 

[Town Heretic]

As a non-believing person I find Christians to be the meanest people I know.

I find rules founded on anecdotal experience to be of the meanest sort. lain:

Far removed from their Christ.

Well, I won't challenge a man in the distance on his appreciation of it.

I think it was Ghandi (I could be wrong) which said, 'Your Christ I like. Your Christians I don't.' (or something along those lines).

He said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are nothing like your Christ."

Of course, he was actually commenting on the British government's conduct and tweaking the noses of its largely Christian constituency. Else, it would have been a narrow, bigoted and silly thing of him to say.

 

[ChrisGergen]

I agree and thank you for completing my thought. The sentiment is none-the-less pointed and true - from my perspective...

 

[Stripe]

Christians have killed people for disagreement - Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Protestants.

And you're a moron. :idunno:

What have I said that was untrue?

It's more the words you wrote than anything you probably actually spoke out loud. Here's hoping, anyway. lain:

And no one's crying - surely not me.

You're a big cry-baby.

And all you have to say is Blah...what an expansive and articulate individual you must be.

:blabla:

 

[cattyfan]

So here's what I'm getting out of all this: If we point out the inconsistancies of his resume and how he presents himself, we're mean. If we point out mistakes in his "facts," we wrong and we're mean.

What I can't figure out is, why did CG come to a Christian site, blather on about his singular brilliance, bad mouth Christians while denouncing Jesus...and think we were all going to praise him and welcome him with joy?

Perhaps this isn't the right site for him to join...

 

[WandererInFog]

What is it with you Christians that you feel you must disparage those that disagree by insinuating or boldly stating the other is ignorant or stupid?

This isn't an issue of "disagreement". This is an issue of either possessing a basic knowledge of the conclusions of the mainstream of textual criticism or not possessing it. This post now confirms that you don't.

John could not have been written that late and still have John as your author - he'd be too old - close to or over 100.

And there you have one of the many reasons why there is no agreement among textual critics as to whom the author might be.

I have not read a secular scholar who has dates different than these and this is where I get my information on this point.

Then you have either read only fringe scholars or your memory is faulty.

Your point is probably taken from Christian scholars, while not lacking in education or intellect, they lack objectivity because their findings are screened through there own personal tradition and bias.

Now you're moving beyond simply not being "well-educated" and firmly into the realm of lacking basic critical thinking skills. The numbers (and other information) I gave in the previous is the consensus of secular scholars, not Christian ones. Christian scholars argue for earlier dates, not later ones, for reasons that I would hope that would become plainly obvious to anyone who spent even a moment reflecting upon it.

 

[ChrisGergen]

Catty I thought you weren't talking to me?

I've nothing to say to you.

Wanderer:

Why the assertion I lack basic critical thinking skills? Have you no other argument that has more merit than sniping at me and trying to insult me personally?

What happened to your faiths requirement to do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

One more thing Mrs Catty: that last thing goes for you too.

What would Jesus Do?

And I'm sure I have a place here on this site - as all of us can not agree...nor should we. General Patton once said, "If all of us are thinking alike - someone isn't thinking."

 

[WandererInFog]

Pretty good talk. I no longer have any doubt how the Crusades started. The Christians got upset and killed everyone who didn't agree...

Well, at least you're consistent in your ignorance...

 

[cattyfan]

What would Jesus Do?

Jesus was NEVER afraid to point out when someone was wrong.