‘My son is not the same’: New testimony paints bleak picture of family separation

[Ktoyou]

Trump placing tariffs on imports is also very bad!

 

[ClimateSanity]

TH said:

It's not a "claim" it's a statement of fact. Few of us are descendents of original peoples here.

So, you are claiming an immigrant is someone who is not a descendant of original people's????

That's not a fact. Most of Americans are not immigrants. We are a nation of citizens.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Ted Kennedy said:

"Our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually"

Why say this to a nation that believes we are a nation of immigrants? Because they don't believe that.

A nation of immigrants would not bat an eye at a million immigrants a year added to our cities.

 

[Town Heretic]

TH said:

It's not a "claim" it's a statement of fact. Few of us are descendents of original peoples here.

I did write that and it's true.

So, you are claiming an immigrant is someone who is not a descendant of original people's????

No, I'm noting that we are the descendants of immigrants almost to a man, that this nation, superimposed on the bones of conquered peoples and largely stolen from those peoples, should understand that when we address others.

That's not a fact. Most of Americans are not immigrants. We are a nation of citizens.

No one has said that most Americans are immigrants. In point of fact, knowing how your mind works, I qualified that point some time ago.

Ted Kennedy said:

"Our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually"

Why say this to a nation that believes we are a nation of immigrants? Because they don't believe that.

A nation of immigrants would not bat an eye at a million immigrants a year added to our cities.

Yeah, I answered this already.

Here's that post:

... assurances were being made that the Hart-Cellar Act wouldn't mean a sudden upheaval of culture and a threat to employment by peoples from non-European nations and/or southern Europeans. Hart-Cellar dismantled the northern European preference in immigration.

It helps to remember that this country was still aggressively racist at that time and that the Civil Rights Act passed in 1964 and the Voting Rights Act in 1965. So it was less about immigrants and more about the composition that was alarming a lot of essentially bigoted white people.

As for the scholar Gonzales, what's his background? I see he's a writer and a "fellow" at a conservative media outlet. What are his academic qualifications? What degrees does he hold? Or are you playing loose with the particular?

 

[ClimateSanity]

TH says in defense of his claim that we are a nation of immigrants that..

"I'm noting that we are the descendants of immigrants almost to a man".


Being descendants of immigrants doesn't make you a nation of immigrants. It makes you a nation of citizens who still resemble the society the nation was founded upon.

A nation of immigrants is one where the original society is utterly destroyed and gone by the invading people's of other societies whose culture doesn't resemble our founding culture in the slightest.

I admit it's headed that way since 1965 but it certainly wasn't that way before that time.

 

[ok doser]

...we are the descendants of immigrants almost to a man...

almost? :freak:

who would you exclude?

....this nation, superimposed on the bones of conquered peoples and largely stolen from those peoples

how is this different from any other nation that has ever existed, including the ones we conquered?

 

[annabenedetti]

Michael Avenatti is working to reunite children stolen from their parents, children used as pawns by our cruel and unusual president.

Great speech here.

 

[annabenedetti]

 

[annabenedetti]

HHS secretary Alex Azar, regarding the conditions in which separated immigrant children are being held:

"It is one of the great acts of American generosity and charity, what we are doing for these unaccompanied kids."

 

[Town Heretic]

TH says...

"I'm noting that we are the descendants of immigrants almost to a man".

That's right.

Being descendants of immigrants doesn't make you a nation of immigrants.

It really does if you understand the point.

It makes you a nation of citizens who still resemble the society the nation was founded upon.

That's true as far as it goes, though it doesn't go far enough. Rather, say your grandparents were Irish. You lack that citizenship and you are the second generation to claim the U.S. as your home. You're still of Irish stock, bearing an Irish name. Whether or not you wed outside of that group, you understand the identity and probably share it to some extent.This nation was built by people not native to its lands and wave upon wave of similarly situated came to grow it into the mightiest nation on earth.

A nation of immigrants is one where the original society is utterly destroyed and gone by the invading people's of other societies whose culture doesn't resemble our founding culture in the slightest.

Well, no, though we did destroy the original cultures and societies that had claim to the land, put those who we didn't kill outright on reservations, increasingly poor in resource and value--or so we thought until there was nowhere else to move them and no excuse to justify it. Then they found oil on some of them.

I admit it's headed that way since 1965 but it certainly wasn't that way before that time.

As a percent of total population the largest waves of immigrants were likely between 1880 to 1920.

In 1907 1.3 million immigrants entered this country legally. The population in 1907 was 19,280,000. So in 1907 nearly 15% of the national population was comprised of those people.

In 2016, 1,018,000 people immigrated to the U.S. legally. The population of the country was 323,000,000. Do the math.

 

[ok doser]

No. You're shifting the goalposts. We were talking about you when you brought up the emo schtick.

no shifting of the goalposts - you presented a false dichotomy and I presented an alternative option

Until you've lived through what they've lived through, you're in no place to judge them

let's see if that makes sense, logically

i never lived through the hyper-inflation and social collapse of the 20's and 30's in germany

logically, therefore, I'm in no place to judge them for what they did after

, you sitting there safely behind your keyboard.

a saying you've used before, as if it indicts me :idunno:

for all you know, I'm on my android waiting for the next homeless person in line at the soup kitchen

Do you think I don't read what they say at places like Breitbart, PJ media, etc.?

if you do, you're ahead of me - I only happen upon those sites if a link take me there, or somebody else mentions them

 

[The Barbarian]

no shifting of the goalposts - you presented a false dichotomy and I presented an alternative option

Another name for "alternative facts", which is another name for "fake news." You guys spin new terms for dishonesty like it was cotton candy.

 

[ok doser]

Another name for "alternative facts", which is another name for "fake news." You guys spin new terms for dishonesty like it was cotton candy.

well no, but i wouldn't expect you to understand


anna offered a false dichotomy in her choices between "trolling" and "sick inside"

i offered a third possibility (there are more) of a difference in emotional response between her and me


this has nothing to do with "alternative facts" gramps, except for the use of the word "alternative"

now shake your cane at those pesky kids on your lawn and go back to your nap

 

[The Barbarian]

Sod writes:
no shifting of the goalposts - you presented a false dichotomy and I presented an alternative option

Barbarian chuckles:
Another name for "alternative facts", which is another name for "fake news." You guys spin new terms for dishonesty like it was cotton candy.

well no,

I see the denial, but the reality remains.

but i wouldn't expect you to understand

The postmodern notion that truth is whatever you want to make it to be, never made any sense, no.

this has nothing to do with "alternative facts" gramps, except for the use of the word "alternative"

"Alternative" is the operative word, isn't it? Inventing yet another euphemism...

"Lie"..."Fake news"..."alternative fact"... "alternative opinion." Keep trying.



now shake your cane at those pesky kids on your lawn and go back to your nap[/QUOTE]

 

[ok doser]

barbie, i understand you are desperate for attention, but you're just making a fool of yourself



eta: and now he's red - very festive :thumb:

eta: aww - he dint stay red

eta: that's interesting - he doesn't register as red on my android

 

[annabenedetti]

The postmodern notion that truth is whatever you want to make it to be, never made any sense, no.

I was listening to a podcast yesterday of an interview with former Director of the CIA Michael Hayden,, and one of the things he said stuck with me.

"Post-truth is pre-fascism."

Also he described what's wrong with Trump perfectly, in my opinion. He asked (paraphrasing now) if Trump's mind was capable of making the distinction between the past that happened, and the past that he needs.

Hayden also brought up the dynamics of post-truth meta-cognition, where if you lack that ability to think about your thinking - you don't know that you don't know, and you don't shut up. Your fix for the tough question is to keep talking.

Hayden has a new book out, The Assault on Intelligence: American National Security in the Age of Lies.




Also, I'm sorry to see you're banned. I have no idea why.

 

[annabenedetti]

no shifting of the goalposts - you presented a false dichotomy and I presented an alternative option

I'm not going to argue about it anymore, you are what you are and you did what you did.

let's see if that makes sense, logically

i never lived through the hyper-inflation and social collapse of the 20's and 30's in germany

logically, therefore, I'm in no place to judge them for what they did after

Right. You can study history, culture, social anthropology, whatever... but you have no standing to judge them. You weren't there. You don't know what you'd have done.

a saying you've used before, as if it indicts me :idunno:

for all you know, I'm on my android waiting for the next homeless person in line at the soup kitchen

Since you used to have a flip phone and didn't seem to have a laptop, and now you have a smart phone and a laptop, it appears you're ahead of where you were before your hiatus.

But that's not the point, is it? The fact is you're here in whatever capacity, safely behind whatever you're using to put those words on the screen. Get back to me when you've lived what these immigrants have lived.

if you do, you're ahead of me - I only happen upon those sites if a link take me there, or somebody else mentions them

I guess I am. I go to them with the express purpose of seeing what they're saying about the same stories I'm reading elsewhere - both the way the articles are written and what the comments are saying.

 

[ok doser]

Right. You can study history, culture, social anthropology, whatever... but you have no standing to judge them. You weren't there. You don't know what you'd have done.

and so I have no standing to judge the nazis for the holocaust :freak:

that's insane

Since you used to have a flip phone and didn't seem to have a laptop, and now you have a smart phone and a laptop, it appears you're ahead of where you were before your hiatus.

i dint even have a flip phone - my cell was from the late nineties

and my online was public (or school) library

got my own tech at home now - unlimited hi-speed :banana:

But that's not the point, is it? The fact is you're here in whatever capacity, safely behind whatever you're using to put those words on the screen. Get back to me when you've lived what these immigrants have lived.

have you lived what these immigrants live?

have you lived what I've lived?



in what way do you have standing to judge my readiness to comment on them?

I guess I am. I go to them with the express purpose of seeing what they're saying about the same stories I'm reading elsewhere - both the way the articles are written and what the comments are saying.

i've been enjoying people like jordan peterson (especially the canadian-oriented stuff) and to a smaller degree Ben Shapiro and others - almost all of it on youtube clips

i also enjoy various ted-talk speakers

when i listen to the radio lately i've been bouncing back and forth between the cbc and npr

 

[annabenedetti]

and so I have no standing to judge the nazis for the holocaust :freak:

that's insane

You went from "i never lived through the hyper-inflation and social collapse of the 20's and 30's in germany" to Nazis and the holocaust.

That's expected. You're getting quite a workout dragging those goalposts from place to place.

i dint even have a flip phone - my cell was from the late nineties

and my online was public (or school) library

got my own tech at home now - unlimited hi-speed :banana:

I'm happy for you.

have you lived what I've lived?

No. Have you lived what I've lived?

in what way do you have standing to judge my readiness to comment on them?

What, you want to judge without being judged?

 

[annabenedetti]

i've been enjoying people like jordan peterson (especially the canadian-oriented stuff) and to a smaller degree Ben Shapiro and others - almost all of it on youtube clips

i also enjoy various ted-talk speakers

when i listen to the radio lately i've been bouncing back and forth between the cbc and npr

Well, listening to Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro isn't exactly crossing any ideological frontiers for you.

TED Talks depends on who you're listening to.