The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace

drbrumley said:

Godrulz, list the items that breakdown the Plot with sound exegesis.

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The famous, pivotal verse in Gal. 2:7, for example, shows that the one gospel is taken to two target audiences by two ministries. It is not saying that there are two gospels after the resurrection and Pentecost.

You realize that we would have to look at the hundreds of verses in the book and debate the merits of each?

thelaqachisnext said:

You have not replied to my questions to you because you have no answers, and you are telling a falsehood about the statement in Job -which I pointed out to you from the Word of God.

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I am not answering some of the questions because you have yet to provide a real answer for the 6 or so main questions I have presented a few posts ago, and what you do answer is a gross misunderstanding of what I said half of the time.

Humanoid fossils would interest me. They would have to be at least 40 foot men.

Paul, the scribe of Scripture, who gives the sense and meaning of Scripture -and Peter, who walked with the LORD and learned from Him, both made quotes from "Scripture" which is found in Enoch -many times!


Paul calls Enoch Scripture, when he quotes his writings -as Jude also gives Enoch the full acknowledgment of "a prophet of God".

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."* 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."*

from Enoch Chapter 48

1 And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness
Which was inexhaustible:
And around it were many fountains of wisdom:
And all the thirsty drank of them,
And were filled with wisdom,
And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect.
2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits,
And his name before the Head of Days.

3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created,
Before the stars of the heaven were made,
His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.

4 He shall be a staff to the righteous whereon to stay themselves and not fall,
And he shall be the light of the Gentiles,
And the hope of those who are troubled of heart.

5 All who dwell on earth shall fall down and worship before him,
And will praise and bless and celebrate with song the Lord of Spirits.

6 And for this reason hath he been chosen and hidden before Him,
Before the creation of the world and for evermore.

7 And the wisdom of the Lord of Spirits hath revealed him to the holy and righteous;
For he hath preserved the lot of the righteous,
Because they have hated and despised this world of unrighteousness,
And have hated all its works and ways in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
For in his name they are saved,
And according to his good pleasure hath it been in regard to their life.


[but the wicked will be shamed]
[Chapter 98]
...

And in shame and in slaughter and in great destitution,

Their spirits shall be cast into the furnace of fire.

9 Woe to you, ye fools, for through your folly shall ye perish: and ye transgress against the wise, 10 and so good hap shall not be your portion. And now, know ye that ye are prepared for the day of destruction: wherefore do not hope to live, ye sinners, but ye shall depart and die; for ye know no ransom; for ye are prepared for the day of the great judgement, for the day of tribulation and great shame for your spirits.


6, 7 And again I swear to you, ye sinners, that sin is prepared for a day of unceasing bloodshed. And they who worship stones, and grave images of gold and silver and wood (and stone) and clay, and those who worship impure spirits and demons, and all kinds of idols not according to knowledge, shall get no manner of help from them.

8 And they shall become godless by reason of the folly of their hearts,

And their eyes shall be blinded through the fear of their hearts

And through visions in their dreams.

9 Through these they shall become godless and fearful;

For they shall have wrought all their work in a lie,

And shall have worshiped a stone:

Therefore in an instant shall they perish.

10 But in those days blessed are all they who accept the words of wisdom, and understand them,

And observe the paths of the Most High, and walk in the path of His righteousness,

And become not godless with the godless;

For they shall be saved.

[Chapter 108]

1 Another book which Enoch wrote for his son Methuselah and for those who will come after him, 2 and keep the law in the last days. Ye who have done good shall wait for those days till an end is made of those who work evil; and an end of the might of the transgressors. And wait ye indeed till sin has passed away, for their names shall be blotted out of the book of life and out of the holy books, and their seed shall be destroyed for ever, and their spirits shall be slain, and they shall cry and make lamentation in a place that is a chaotic wilderness, and in the fire shall they burn; for there is no earth there.

And I saw there something like an invisible cloud; for by reason of its depth I could not look over, and I saw a flame of fire blazing brightly, and things like shining 5 mountains circling and sweeping to and fro. And I asked one of the holy angels who was with me and said unto him: ' What is this shining thing? for it is not a heaven but only the flame of a blazing 6 fire, and the voice of weeping and crying and lamentation and strong pain.' And he said unto me: ' This place which thou seest-here are cast the spirits of sinners and blasphemers, and of those who work wickedness, and of those who pervert everything that the Lord hath spoken through the mouth 7 of the prophets-(even) the things that shall be. For some of them are written and inscribed above in the heaven, in order that the angels may read them and know that which shall befall the sinners, and the spirits of the humble, and of those who have afflicted their bodies, and been recompensed 8 by God; and of those who have been put to shame by wicked men: Who love God and loved neither gold nor silver nor any of the good things which are in the world, but gave over their bodies to torture. Who, since they came into being, longed not after earthly food, but regarded everything as a passing breath, and lived accordingly, and the Lord tried them much, and their spirits were 10 found pure so that they should bless His name.

And all the blessings destined for them I have recounted in the books. And he hath assigned them their recompense, because they have been found to be such as loved heaven more than their life in the world, and though they were trodden under foot of wicked men, and experienced abuse and reviling from them and were put to shame,

11 yet they blessed Me. And now I will summon the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who in the flesh were not recompensed 12 with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. And I will bring forth in shining light those who 13 have loved My holy name, and I will seat each on the throne of his honour. And they shall be resplendent for times without number; for righteousness is the judgement of God; for to the faithful 14 He will give faithfulness in the habitation of upright paths. And they shall see those who were , 15 born in darkness led into darkness, while the righteous shall be resplendent. And the sinners shall cry aloud and see them resplendent, and they indeed will go where days and seasons are prescribed for them.'

thelaqachisnext said:

Paul, the scribe of Scripture, who gives the sense and meaning of Scripture -and Peter, who walked with the LORD and learned from Him, both made quotes from "Scripture" which is found in Enoch -many times!


Paul calls Enoch Scripture, when he quotes his writings -as Jude also gives Enoch the full acknowledgment of "a prophet of God".

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."* 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."*

from Enoch Chapter 48

1 And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness
Which was inexhaustible:
And around it were many fountains of wisdom:
And all the thirsty drank of them,
And were filled with wisdom,
And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect.
2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits,
And his name before the Head of Days.

3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created,
Before the stars of the heaven were made,
His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.

4 He shall be a staff to the righteous whereon to stay themselves and not fall,
And he shall be the light of the Gentiles,
And the hope of those who are troubled of heart.

5 All who dwell on earth shall fall down and worship before him,
And will praise and bless and celebrate with song the Lord of Spirits.

6 And for this reason hath he been chosen and hidden before Him,
Before the creation of the world and for evermore.

7 And the wisdom of the Lord of Spirits hath revealed him to the holy and righteous;
For he hath preserved the lot of the righteous,
Because they have hated and despised this world of unrighteousness,
And have hated all its works and ways in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
For in his name they are saved,
And according to his good pleasure hath it been in regard to their life.


[but the wicked will be shamed]
[Chapter 98]
...

And in shame and in slaughter and in great destitution,

Their spirits shall be cast into the furnace of fire.

9 Woe to you, ye fools, for through your folly shall ye perish: and ye transgress against the wise, 10 and so good hap shall not be your portion. And now, know ye that ye are prepared for the day of destruction: wherefore do not hope to live, ye sinners, but ye shall depart and die; for ye know no ransom; for ye are prepared for the day of the great judgement, for the day of tribulation and great shame for your spirits.


6, 7 And again I swear to you, ye sinners, that sin is prepared for a day of unceasing bloodshed. And they who worship stones, and grave images of gold and silver and wood (and stone) and clay, and those who worship impure spirits and demons, and all kinds of idols not according to knowledge, shall get no manner of help from them.

8 And they shall become godless by reason of the folly of their hearts,

And their eyes shall be blinded through the fear of their hearts

And through visions in their dreams.

9 Through these they shall become godless and fearful;

For they shall have wrought all their work in a lie,

And shall have worshiped a stone:

Therefore in an instant shall they perish.

10 But in those days blessed are all they who accept the words of wisdom, and understand them,

And observe the paths of the Most High, and walk in the path of His righteousness,

And become not godless with the godless;

For they shall be saved.

[Chapter 108]

1 Another book which Enoch wrote for his son Methuselah and for those who will come after him, 2 and keep the law in the last days. Ye who have done good shall wait for those days till an end is made of those who work evil; and an end of the might of the transgressors. And wait ye indeed till sin has passed away, for their names shall be blotted out of the book of life and out of the holy books, and their seed shall be destroyed for ever, and their spirits shall be slain, and they shall cry and make lamentation in a place that is a chaotic wilderness, and in the fire shall they burn; for there is no earth there.

And I saw there something like an invisible cloud; for by reason of its depth I could not look over, and I saw a flame of fire blazing brightly, and things like shining 5 mountains circling and sweeping to and fro. And I asked one of the holy angels who was with me and said unto him: ' What is this shining thing? for it is not a heaven but only the flame of a blazing 6 fire, and the voice of weeping and crying and lamentation and strong pain.' And he said unto me: ' This place which thou seest-here are cast the spirits of sinners and blasphemers, and of those who work wickedness, and of those who pervert everything that the Lord hath spoken through the mouth 7 of the prophets-(even) the things that shall be. For some of them are written and inscribed above in the heaven, in order that the angels may read them and know that which shall befall the sinners, and the spirits of the humble, and of those who have afflicted their bodies, and been recompensed 8 by God; and of those who have been put to shame by wicked men: Who love God and loved neither gold nor silver nor any of the good things which are in the world, but gave over their bodies to torture. Who, since they came into being, longed not after earthly food, but regarded everything as a passing breath, and lived accordingly, and the Lord tried them much, and their spirits were 10 found pure so that they should bless His name.

And all the blessings destined for them I have recounted in the books. And he hath assigned them their recompense, because they have been found to be such as loved heaven more than their life in the world, and though they were trodden under foot of wicked men, and experienced abuse and reviling from them and were put to shame,

11 yet they blessed Me. And now I will summon the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who in the flesh were not recompensed 12 with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. And I will bring forth in shining light those who 13 have loved My holy name, and I will seat each on the throne of his honour. And they shall be resplendent for times without number; for righteousness is the judgement of God; for to the faithful 14 He will give faithfulness in the habitation of upright paths. And they shall see those who were , 15 born in darkness led into darkness, while the righteous shall be resplendent. And the sinners shall cry aloud and see them resplendent, and they indeed will go where days and seasons are prescribed for them.'

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When through Isaiah, YHWH makes mention of the passages from Enoch which are pasted in my prior post, YHWH says;

"23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

Only in Enoch have Paul and Peter read that all shall bow to Jesus, the Messiah, as YHWH come, and only in Enoch, do Paul and Peter get the part about "His name" -not from Isaiah.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."* 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."*



In Enoch, Isaiah has read that He is the Hidden God -until His revealing, and Isaiah begins to quote from Enoch -as Paul and Peter's references to Enoch prove, for it is "His Name" "revealed" to whom all bow.

Isaiah 45:15-24;
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together:

who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else


23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Surely, shall one say, F229 in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed."
```
Only in Enoch has God already sworn that all shall bow the kness to Jesus Christ, the Hidden in God from the beginning Son of Man who was with God and was God -from the beginning "whose name was secret until His revealing" , and in whose name all who are saved are not shamed, in the end. who confess His name'.

The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace is one of the greatest reasons why we members of the Body of Christ are not going through the tribulation. I feel a great burden for many, but, there is much confusion about what the Bible really teaches.

I believe it’s because most do not seem to look at God’s word according to the dispensational setting.
God shows us in His word.

We must realize that we can know the truth if we study God’s word to see what it really says. That’s why I believe all of the problems in the gospels and Circumcision Epistles can be solved when we look at the great distinctions God makes in His Word.

God’s program for us today is different from all His previous programs and future programs.

We see how unique God’s program for us is when we read about Paul’s commission in Eph 3:1-9: “For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles – 2 if indeed you have heard of the Dispensation of the Grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gracious gift of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and make all see what is the dispensation (oikonomia) of the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.”

God inspired him to repeat this explanation in Col 1:25-27: [The church]of which I became a minister according to the dispensation of God which was given to me for you, to [complete, make full, fill] the word of God, 26 the mystery which has been hidden from the ages and from the generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To whom God willed to make known what are the glorious riches of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ among you, the hope of glory.

This means that prophecies made before Paul was saved, from Genesis to Acts nine, have nothing to do with this dispensation. Why? Because this dispensation is called the dispensation of the mystery.

Rom 16:25,26 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret in age times 26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith.

It also means that nothing was known about the church which is the body of Christ before it was revealed to the Apostle Paul.

Why?

Because it was a mystery – a secret.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

Things changed drastically when the Dispensation of Grace/mystery started.

Here is one of the big differences in this Dispensation of Grace from other dispensations.

Salvation. We are justified by faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Under the Circumcision Gospel, they were justified by faith plus works.
Jam 2:11,12,14,20,21,24,25 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

Bob Hill

Security.
We members of the Dispensation of Grace are sealed and secure.
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.
Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto the day of redemption.

Now, that is real security!!

In Christ,
Bob Hill

In contrast to our security because we are sealed, believers of other dispensations have to endure to be saved.

Mat 24:9-14 Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Even Christ’s Apostles did not have the security we members of the Body of Christ have.
John 15:1-12 I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone [of the eleven apostles] does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

I’m glad that I am Safe in Christ,
Bob Hill

Now, when it comes to water baptism, what do you think?

We don’t have to be baptized.

Acts 16:30,31 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

That is all the jailor had to do – believe.

Paul even declared: 1 Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

from Enoch Chapter 48

1 And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness
Which was inexhaustible:
And around it were many fountains of wisdom:
And all the thirsty drank of them,
And were filled with wisdom,
And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect.
2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits,
And his name before the Head of Days.

3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created,
Before the stars of the heaven were made,
His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.

4 He shall be a staff to the righteous whereon to stay themselves and not fall,
And he shall be the light of the Gentiles,
And the hope of those who are troubled of heart.

5 All who dwell on earth shall fall down and worship before him,
And will praise and bless and celebrate with song the Lord of Spirits.

6 And for this reason hath he been chosen and hidden before Him,
Before the creation of the world and for evermore.

7 And the wisdom of the Lord of Spirits hath revealed him to the holy and righteous;
For he hath preserved the lot of the righteous,
Because they have hated and despised this world of unrighteousness,
And have hated all its works and ways in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
For in his name they are saved,
And according to his good pleasure hath it been in regard to their life.

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The Good Pleasure of the LORD in regard to the lives of those who are saved in His name is that "Acceptable Year of the LORD", which comes by the Day of Atonement, for which the Son of Man who was named before the "LORD of Spirits" from the beginning [Isaiah 49] came to do for us.

It is the "Acceptable Sacrifice" that is "His Good Pleasure" [both have the same meaning in the Hebrew] which made an end of sin and opened the Way for all in Adam -whosoever will- to enter into the kingdom of His dear Son.
The Mercy Seat body of the New Man is the Throne of His Grace to us, by which "Gate" we enter into the City of God as perfected sons of God, born again in the New Man's Living Spirit, by the Adoption which joins us as "one" in Him, for which Enoch reports the Father saying would happen when "I and My Son will be united in them" [the born again], and the heavens and the earth will be regenerated in that day of the Father's uniting with the righteous, who are made "perfect" [whole and complete, in body, soul, and Spirit] in the Son, by Adoption.

When Paul, the scribe, speaks of the good pleasure of His will, he is quoting from Enoch and from the OT Oracles, which teach these things through the Mercy Seat body of the New Man.

The Circumcision believers had to be water baptized in order to be saved.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

After Christ died on the cross, we see in 1 Pe 3:19-21 that [Christ] went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us – baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Water baptism was necessary for those in the dispensation prior to ours to be saved.

But, in our Dispensation of Grace, we do not have to be baptized to be saved. In fact, we shouldn't get baptized.

Bob Hill

Thelaqachisnext’s quote from Enoch Chapter 48 is irrelevant for biblical truth and the purpose of the mystery.

What is important is love.
1 Ti 1:3-5 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia - remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment charge is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith.
2 Ti 1:13.14 Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.14 Keep that good thing which was committed to you the good deposit, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.

The big difference is life changing and shows us in this dispensation, salvation is all of grace and our belief.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

thelaqachisnext said:

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."* 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."*


In Enoch, Isaiah has read that He is the Hidden God -until His revealing, and Isaiah begins to quote from Enoch -as Paul and Peter's references to Enoch prove, for it is "His Name" "revealed" to whom all bow.

Isaiah 45:15-24;
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together:

who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else


23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Surely, shall one say, F229 in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed."
```
Only in Enoch has God already sworn that all shall bow the kness to Jesus Christ, the Hidden in God from the beginning Son of Man who was with God and was God -from the beginning "whose name was secret until His revealing" , and in whose name all who are saved are not shamed, in the end. who confess His name'.

Click to expand...

Looking at the book “The Word“ by Isaac Mozeson, on the roots of all words as found in Hebrew, the mother tongue, I discover for myself on page 165, from the word for ‘spheres‘, that the word Go spel is then God’s sphere , His Spiel, [spell] which is the fulness, the pledge, His Oath, come to the finish, the fulness, the Pledge, as pledged by God in the “beginning“.

God has only One “Oath“; one “Spel“, Promised [pledged] in the beginning , when the Son of Man/Son of God, His Oath [His Solemn Word] was promised.

I encourage anyone who wants to understand the Promise of God in the Oath [as the secret hidden Son of Man/Son of God, His Word, as He is called in Enoch] to get to the truth of word roots and see that MAD doctrine is false, and is not from God and is a deception of men who have had their sight blinded.

-“Even “Truth” is found to be the root for etym ology, which is not in Greek, but in Hebrew, the mother tongue, as he puts it, for to form “truth” one takes the first and last letters of the Hebrew Alphabet, placing the middle letter between them“ -from Mozeson‘s book.

Jesus Christ is the Truth of God -the True “Alpha and Omega”, the Beginning and the End.

But MAD doctrine exalts a false paul and uses false words they put in the false paul’s mouth, over and against the Truth of God’s Revelation of His Son -who was revealed to Saul -Paul, on the road to Damascus -whose secret name, hidden in God from the beginning, is known to be Israel [Genesis 32, when He wrestled with Jacob and gave Jacob His own name of the second Man as a sign of the Aoption to come in His New Man Spirit and body, & Isaiah 49 & Hosea 12:1-3]: the "New & Second Man" in whom God is "Well Pleased" by the "Acceptable Sacrifice" of His body and blood, which was formed to be the Well Pleasing [The ATONEMENT] offering, in the "Times Appointed" before, and be the Mercy Seat for the reception of the Offering which was that "Well Pleasing" Accomplishment of His Will for all in Adam, which put away "Sin"s remembrance before YHWH, once, for all in Adam, so that whosoever will may enter into His Kingdom prepared from the beginning for the Son of Man/Son of God.
"Whosoever will" may enter in by the Door, called the "Strait Gate" -His bound body as our God, to be our YESHUA, as Psalm 118 speaks of and as Isaiah 12 rejoices in.

But to disobey His commands will not allow one to enter in, for those who love Him obey Him, and His commands are not grivious. Who would rebel against Him by refusing to obey His simple commands are performing witchcraft against Him, for rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft; and He has commanded all nations to repent and be water baptized in His name.

All nations -Gentiles- once knew God, but changed the truth of God into a lie, so God gave them over...

To receive not the LOVE of the TRUTH, which is the LOVE of JESUS Christ which He performed for the will of the Father, as the Acceptable [Well PLEASING] SACRIFICE, is to be damned, and to be turned over by God to believe the lie, by having the eyes blinded by God.

"The Acceptable YEAR of YHWH" ="The Dispensation of the Fulness of Times";

as Paul the scribe said.
and the Sacrifice is come to it's promised "pledge", it is come full circle from the beginning and is Completed, "Finished", which ended Sin for all, in Adam, once.

Paul's traveling companion Luke, wrote this account also, about the call to the Gentiles to come into "LIFE", which is the call today, while it is "Today", sent out by God through all His servants to all nations, "Come into His LIFE".

The Parable of the Wedding Feast
(Luke 14:15-24)
22And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: 2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, 'Tell those who are invited, "See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding."' 5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. 7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.' 10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, *take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

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Today the call is given by true apostles of the LORD [those sent today are 'apostles', for sent is 'apostle', but only the original 12 were sent as 'eyewitnesses', who saw Him and handled Him] to come into His Life, by adoption -the "inVITE " [come into His Son's LIFE] is given by all His servants who are sent into all the nations [the Gentiles] to call all in Adam to come in, and be made ALIVE.

1) to call

a) to call aloud, utter in a loud voice

b) to invite
Jesus told us that the servants are "apostles" who go into all the world and "call into LIFE" all Gentiles, so that His "House" may be "FILLED", and the call is to the unworthy, who take the places of those cut off -but not all are cut off, and we Gentiles are graft into the same tree the Remnant is in, from which the natural branches who refused to enter when the banquet was ready were cut off.

Bob Hill said:

Now, when it comes to water baptism, what do you think?

We don’t have to be baptized.

Acts 16:30,31 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

That is all the jailor had to do – believe.

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If you are going to limit ALL you have to do to be saved and conclude that it is this word "believe" it is important to understand what this word meant from the Greek as apposed to the fair tale meaning the word has in English speech today eg. "belief in the tooth fairy"
To not do so is a dangerous avenue to travel IMHO.

The word used in the particular passage is:

pisteuo: to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):--believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

Notice the word "commit" to trust used here as part of the definition from Strong's Greek concordance. This implies a forward action of commitment to trust.
And when we trust someone we believe what they say say as truth sometimes even above what others say.
But it derives from this word which gives a deeper understanding:

pistis: persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

and at the time quiet possible meant the same thing in context.
Notice the word "Gospel" used to define this root word for pisteuo.
To put this in perspective to our language it would be similar to the words canine and dog.
They are too words which mean the same thing generally, but one is more descriptive. Just as it is common for more people to use the word dog when speaking of a dog both words describe the same thing.
And if anyone 2000 years from now would want to know what the word dog meant they would naturally come across the word canine in the the clarification of that definition.

And what was the Gospel of Christ?
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent ye, and believe the gospel. -- Mark 1:14,15.
JN 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
JN 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

So to "believe" in Jesus is to commit to Him and to accept His Gospel.
And it was not just for the Jews, there was not a different one for the Gentile as suggested by a few here.
As the gospel writer or the source of oral tradition which attributes these words to Matthew:
MT 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
This is a quote from Esaias a prophet.
Matthew places that prophecy as being fulfilled by Jesus

In addition pistis is a derivative of this word:

peitho :a primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy, to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively, to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty):--agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) conflent, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield.

Which goes into further detail of the root meaning. To put this into perspective it would be akin to the genus of a dog, Carnivora Canis for example is a dog, but more a detailed description and not a common word used in every day language essentially they mean the same thing.
The importance of this is the meaning obey that is included in this root words definition.

So it would seem to anyone interested in what they were talking about concerning "believing in Jesus" to include ALL the relevant definitions of this word as it was used in those days.

To recap "believing" in included:

to commit (to trust), put in trust with., and the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself, and to obey, Jesus.

Even Demons believe in the sense that they admit Jesus was who He said he was.
However they do not do the rest of what is required by Him and His gospel.

keep shinin'

jerm

I haven't heard back from drbrumley.

So I posted an invitation to The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35255&page=6

I hope some people come.

Dear Jeremy,

I see you are a musician. Did you ever hear of Steve Camp?

The classic English Bible, the KJV, is basically Anglo-Saxon in vocabulary and completely so in structure. But the 1611 translators were not afraid to use some choice Latin-type words, especially in the theological texts: justification, salvation, faith, cross, glory, and propitiation, to name a few.

But this dual origin of English vocabulary occasionally poses a problem. Oddly enough, the most important Gospel word-family in the Greek NT is obscured in English. This is because we translate the Greek verb pisteuo by the Anglo-Saxon word believe, and the related noun pistis by the totally unrelated word faith (from the Latin fides, by way of French).

At least partly due to this lack of similarity, many preachers who are weak on grace are able to maintain that the Greek lying behind one or both of the English words includes a whole possible agenda of works, such as commitment, repentance, perseverance, etc.

Actually, believe and faith, as the Greek shows, are just the verb and the noun for a concept that is really no different in English than in Greek. That concept is taking people at their word, trusting that what they say is true.

In order to clearly demonstrate this fact we would like to take three of the most famous "believe" verses in the NT and re-translate them a little by using the word "faith" to show they are really the same in the original.

First, the best known verse of all, the one Martin Luther called "the Gospel in a nutshell":

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever has faith in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16).
Next, Paul's clear, simple Gospel command to the seeking Philippian jailer:

Put your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved (Acts 16:31).
Third, our Lord's wonderfully gracious promise:

Amen, amen [lit. Greek text] I tell you, whoever hears My word and has faith in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life (John 5:24).
These edited translations should help show that believe and faith really convey the same meaning.

Now let's go in the other direction; let's take three famous "faith" passages and re-translate a bit to bring out the fact that the word in the original is just another form of the "believe" concept.

First, the verse that gives us, not an abstract, but a working definition of faith:

Now believing is the substantiation of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Heb 11:1).
And here is probably the number two Gospel text for grace-believers:

For by grace you have been saved through believing, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast (Eph 2:8-9).
And finally, another verse from that great teacher of salvation by grace through faith, the Apostle Paul:

But to him who does not work but believes [from pisteuo] on Him who justifies the ungodly, his believing [pistis] is accounted for righteousness (Rom 4:5).
Of course, we are not saying that these or any words always have the exact same meaning. Context determines a great deal. For example faith in the NT is sometimes used for the body of truths that we believe, the Christian Faith (e.g., see Jude 3).

No "faith" (religion) gives nearly as much importance to believing the right things as does Christianity. And no wonder! Believing or having faith in Christ grants us salvation. And what we believe about other things--assurance, rewards, grace, etc.--determines how we live our lives every day. What we really believe and what we say we believe are not always the same thing. When we say that people are saved through faith alone in Christ alone, we nevertheless do believe it has to be their genuine faith and not merely a nominal evangelicalism.

God doesn't need our money, works, or resolutions. But He would like to be taken at His word. He doesn't like to be made out to be a liar. Neither do we. God wants to be believed. He wants us to have faith in Him, His Son, and His finished work on the Cross for us. This is the Gospel of grace. It is not based on works, or we might bore the saints with a "bragimony" meeting through all eternity.

Trust me (I mean, believe me): Have faith in Christ and you will be saved!

Steve Camp is passionate, anointed, and Calvinistic?! There goes my stereotype.

lightninboy said:

I haven't heard back from drbrumley.

So I posted an invitation to The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35255&page=6

I hope some people come.

Click to expand...

I'll be answering, just been busy