Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?

Ask Mr. Religion · Feb 4, 2017

Robert Pate Thinks God is Through With Humanity

Robert Pate Thinks God is Through With Humanity

Robert Pate said:
In a sense God is through with humanity.

He sent his only begotten Son into the world to atone for the sins of the world, 1 John 2:2. Jesus now owns everything, the lost as well as the saved. He bought everything and everyone.

When God looks at this sinful world all that he can see is his Son Jesus Christ. If God saw this world as it is, there would be judgment and condemnation.

How then can God consign anyone to eternal punishment if He has no actual knowledge of what warranted a person's judgement? When God the Son declared Judas the son of perdition, was He just guessing?

AMR

Robert Pate · Feb 4, 2017

Ask Mr. Religion said:
That is not an answer, Robert. Be specific. You have made statements that imply God is not all-knowing, for example,

This implies that there are things going on in His creation that God does not know about. Are you an open theist? For that matter, I doubt that even an open theist would claim that God is very absent from what is happening on the earth.

These statements accord with your most recent claim that God is only sovereign in certain situations.

I am simply asking, as are others, for you to expand upon these statements and offer some clear explanations in support of these naked claims. Why are you resistant to giving an account for what you are asserting?

AMR

I have told you before and I am telling you again, God does NOTHING outside of his holy, just, merciful and righteous nature.

This leaves Calvinism out. God does not predestinate people to hell before they are born. If God did that he would be unjust.

If Jesus did not atone for all of the sins of the world then he is not Lord. If Jesus is not Lord then everyone is lost and without hope.

Nanja · Feb 4, 2017

beloved57 said:
pateism teaches that sinners must first stop sinning so Christ can save them from their sins.

pateism is a false works based gospel dependent on the freewill of man to get himself saved.

Bright Raven · Feb 4, 2017

Nanja said:
pateism is a false works based gospel dependent on the freewill of man to get himself saved.

that is right but it is the true Gospel. Tell me if you can how you were saved?

beloved57 · Feb 4, 2017

Nanja said:
pateism is a false works based gospel dependent on the freewill of man to get himself saved.

Absolutely. He teaches that Christ can't save sinners that reject Him! So Christ can't save sinners that act like ungodly sinners!

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app

Bright Raven · Feb 4, 2017

beloved57 said:
Absolutely. He teaches that Christ can't save sinners that reject Him! So Christ can't save sinners that act like ungodly sinners!

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app

That is just plain stupid.

Robert Pate · Feb 4, 2017

ttruscott said:
Nope, that sounds perfect but you also teach that GOD created us evil sinners by making us humans in Adam

AND

that HE knew before their creation who would end in hell but created them anyway...!!! two of the biggest blasphemies against HIS perfect loving righteousness and both are underpinnings of orthodox theology.

God created Adan as innocent. Adam by his own free will chose to sin against God. Since Adam was the head of the human race we became sinners, Romans 5:12.

You now have a choice, you can accept Christ as your savior, or you can reject Christ as your savior. Either way God is just. He provides and allows you to chose.

Angel4Truth · Feb 4, 2017

Robert Pate said:
In a sense God is through with humanity.

He sent his only begotten Son into the world to atone for the sins of the world, 1 John 2:2. Jesus now owns everything, the lost as well as the saved. He bought everything and everyone.

When God looks at this sinful world all that he can see is his Son Jesus Christ. If God saw this world as it is, there would be judgment and condemnation.

Are you denying Jesus is God? Does He intervene in what He cant see?

Nanja · Feb 4, 2017

beloved57 said:
Absolutely. He teaches that Christ can't save sinners that reject Him! So Christ can't save sinners that act like ungodly sinners!

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app

Right, pateism is all about what the sinner does or does not do, totally contrary to Eph. 2:9

Robert Pate · Feb 4, 2017

Ask Mr. Religion said:
How then can God consign anyone to eternal punishment if He has no actual knowledge of what warranted a person's judgement? When God the Son declared Judas the son of perdition, was He just guessing?

AMR

There will be a judgment when Christ returns.

It will be a judgment of believers and unbelievers. All that are not in Christ and posses the Holy Spirit will be condemned.

Judas was not condemned to hell, but was labeled as a son of perdition. The judgment has not taken place yet.

Robert Pate · Feb 4, 2017

Nanja said:
Right, pateism is all about what the sinner does or does not do, totally contrary to Eph. 2:9

Your lack of response to Christ and his Gospel will result in your damnation.

Ask Mr. Religion · Feb 4, 2017

Robert Pate Evades The Matter of Everlasting Punishment

Robert Pate Evades The Matter of Everlasting Punishment

Robert Pate said:
I have told you before and I am telling you again, God does NOTHING outside of his holy, just, merciful and righteous nature.

This leaves Calvinism out. God does not predestinate people to hell before they are born. If God did that he would be unjust.

If Jesus did not atone for all of the sins of the world then he is not Lord. If Jesus is not Lord then everyone is lost and without hope.

OK, Robert.

You are being intentially evasive in refusing to provide direct answers to specific questions. I think you are just feeling your way around this topic for you really do not have an answer to your odd statements relating to what God knows and does not know.

AMR

Robert Pate · Feb 4, 2017

Angel4Truth said:
Are you denying Jesus is God? Does He intervene in what He cant see?

The ears of Christ are open to all that come to him as repentant sinners. Jesus saves and he saves to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25.

Nanja · Feb 4, 2017

beloved57 said:
Absolutely. He teaches that Christ can't save sinners that reject Him! So Christ can't save sinners that act like ungodly sinners!

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app

That's cause he doesn't believe that the sinners Christ died for were reconciled to God while being unbelievers and enemies Rom. 5:10.

Robert Pate · Feb 4, 2017

Ask Mr. Religion said:
OK, Robert.

You are being intentially evasive in refusing to provide direct answers to specific questions. I think you are just feeling your way around this topic for you really do not have an answer to your odd statements relating to what God knows and does not know.

AMR

You are getting answers, but because you don't like the answers, you go deaf, dumb and blind.

Angel4Truth · Feb 4, 2017

Robert Pate said:
The ears of Christ are open to all that come to him as repentant sinners. Jesus saves and he saves to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25.

In other words, He sees all and you cant admit you were wrong.

Angel4Truth · Feb 4, 2017

Robert Pate said:
You are getting answers, but because you don't like the answers, you go deaf, dumb and blind.

You arent answering, you arent secure in your position on this, clearly.

Hebrews 4:13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Robert Pate · Feb 4, 2017

Nanja said:
That's cause he doesn't believe that the sinners Christ died for were reconciled to God while being unbelievers and enemies Rom. 5:10.

The scripture plainly tells us that Jesus has ALREADY reconciled the whole world to God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

But you are like a child in a candy store, you only pick what you like.

Ask Mr. Religion · Feb 4, 2017

Robert Pate Denies Luke 16:14-31

Robert Pate Denies Luke 16:14-31

Robert Pate said:
Judas was not condemned to hell, but was labeled as a son of perdition. The judgment has not taken place yet.

Robert, Judas is suffering right now. He is not in some holding pen with all the dead hanging around. He is being tormented right now just as is the rich man in hell, being tormented (Luke 16:14-31). You have not explained your statements in light of my response.

AMR

Nanja · Feb 4, 2017

Robert Pate said:
Your lack of response to Christ and his Gospel will result in your damnation.

More works gospel preaching.

Those Christ died for were reconciled to God while being enemies and unbelievers Rom. 5:10.

Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?

&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

New member

Well-known member

&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

Well-known member

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9