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Grosnick Marowbe

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meshak said:
I try to be true to Jesus. I don't compromise my faith just because JWs are godlier than other organizations.

I was being honest about my faith and JWs did not accept what I have to say.

I was considering joining them. I was not a member yet.

You see, your sister TL is spreading lies about my faith too.

That's what happens when you disrespect Jesus' teachings.
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Did the JWs get a restraining order against you and your hat?
 
God's Truth

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Bright Raven said:
And where do you get that from?

2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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God hides the Truth from the wise and learned, and He reveals it to children.

1 Corinthians 1:20, 1 Corinthians 1:21, 1 Corinthians 2:12, Luke 10:21.

At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

Acts 22:3
"I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. I studied under Gamaliel and was thoroughly trained in the law of our ancestors. I was just as zealous for God as any of you are today.

Philippians 3:8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ
 
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Ask Mr. Religion said:
An often used, but misunderstood and cast as a shibboleth for anyone who thinks he or she has some special knowledge that the rest of us better pay attention to; all contrary to Rev. 7:9, of course. :AMR:

We should avoid two errors: first, that all men shall be saved; second, that only few men will be saved. The preponderance of Scripture teaches the universal spread and acceptance of the Gospel at some point in history. Folks with this view appeal to Matt. 7:13, 14; 20:16; 22:14; Luke 13:23, 24. The passages in Matthew 7 and Luke 13 are parallel passages and already contain much of the answer in their contexts.

Matthew, moreso than Luke, emphasizes the wideness of the way to destruction; Luke mentions only the narrow, or strait, gate. This is a warning contrasting Christianity with other approaches to God. The word translated "broad" in Matthew 7:13 means "spacious" or "roomy" and carries with it the idea of living comfortably and without troubles. The words "narrow" and "wide," describing the gates are relative terms.

In other words, these only derive meaning in contrast to one another. There are two paths, and the two gates, or doors, standing at the head of each, the straight and narrow and the comfortable and wide. In Luke's account, he uses the same word for "gate," as John uses in 10:9 to give a metaphorical description of Jesus, "door." So, Jesus is contrasting salvation through him with other paths of salvation. It is through much tribulation we enter the kingdom of God (Acts 14:22).

There are two other contrasting terms used in these passages, "many" and "few." Again, these are relative terms and give no real information as to the actual number of those saved. In Luke's account (which is the chronological Gospel, see Luke 1:3 nd forward, he writes "in order"), this question is raised immediately after we are told that Jesus taught that the kingdom of God would fill the earth. Yet, at the time Jesus spoke, the church was still a "little flock" (Luke 12:32) waiting to receive the kingdom. In Matthew, the warning has been placed in a block of teaching expressing the difficulty of being saved and the ease with which men deceive themselves in this matter. The warning is for men to avoid taking the path that attracts the most and easiest attention of men.

At the time that Jesus spoke these words, it was historically true that neither had most of mankind been saved nor would most of the Jews to whom he preached then be saved. However, it shall always remain true that the preaching of Christianity will be wider than its reception.

The passages in Matt. 20:16 and 22:14 both rely upon the previous teaching. However, in these passages, there is an explanation offered. "Many" are called but "few are "chosen." The difference between the many and the few is that between calling and election (no matter how you specifically view "election"). The call of the Gospel is always wider than its reception. Hence, the contrast.

The reason is because not all who hear the outward preaching are elect of God. The Greek literally reads, "many are called, but few are elect." Throughout most of history, the contrast between the "many" and the "few" has been numerically significant. Yet, the contrast is what we might express by the words "more" or "less." More people are called, or bidden, less people are chosen.

If you consider that there are more people alive today than throughout all of human history and, presumably, this will continue to be the case during the millennium, then, if most people living during the millennium are saved, most people in history will be too. One thousand years of ever increasing mankind numerically being brought to faith is layering of twenty generations of men, each larger than the previous, being redeemed. Thus, in heaven, the number of the elect is a number no man can number (cf. Rev. 7:9).

Even during the millennium, though the vast majority of men will be saved, the hearing of the Gospel will still be wider than the election of God. The difference is that during the millennium, though fewer will be elect than hear the Gospel, the number of the elect will be greatly increased so as to fill all the world. "The earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea" (i.e., everywhere).

More always hear than are saved. This is not, however, a concept that necessitates thinking the final number of the saved will be few. Less will be saved than heard the Gospel but, in the end, the overarching theme of Scripture is that Christ came to save the world not just a few scattered individuals. Just as all die in Adam, so all are made alive in Christ. Paul's point challenges credulity if he meant by "all" a number so significantly smaller than the number of people who ever shall exist that the mass of mankind is reprobate and counted for naught. It is clear the tree of humanity is to be pruned of its diseased branches but pruning does not entail cutting off the vast majority of the branches of a tree.

The divine intention is stated throughout Scripture to save innumerable multitudes. Christ did not die for each and every individual of mankind but He most certainly evidently died for a large enough portion of mankind that it could be considered the "all," "the whole world," "all men," etc. While it is true less will be saved than hear, or even profess the true religion, that does not mean the number of saved will be small or even smaller than the total number of the lost.

For example, it appears that no more than one third of the angels fell (Rev. 12:4 and following; it may be less, this may not refer to the whole). Should we suppose that God, who made man in his own image, and the Son of God, who took upon himself not the nature of angels but the seed of Abraham, should have purposed to redeem a lesser percentage (one-third) of men than angels were kept from apostasy? This seems to misrepresent the claim that God's redemption of men is more exalted than his upholding and confirming of the elect angels (1 Pet. 1:12 and forward).

Note: The above provided with a tip of the hat to Jim Dodson, Covenanter.org.


AMR
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You cannot nullify scripture with scripture; and, you cannot use English to Greek to try and change what is written.
 
God's Truth

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meshak said:
Well said brother.

You are the only one who are decent Christian in this thread.

We will be saved if our conduct is approved by Jesus at the end.
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We can know if we are saved now.

Saved

Acts 15:11
No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

2 Timothy 1:9
He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,


Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Luke 19:9
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For he says, “In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.

Philippians 2:12
[ Do Everything Without Grumbling ] Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

1 Peter 2:2
Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
 
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Totton Linnet said:
I believe in testimony, meshak's testimony is that she is not a true saved Christian.

People can pretend with their testimony just as they can with fruit but they are soon found out in both. A person's testimony can hardly rise above their experience.

Our testimony is what Hebrews calls our confession.

On the net it is impossible for me to show you my fruit, all I can do is testify.
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We see your rotten fruit.
 
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Totton Linnet said:
You said the churches are full of people like me with Pastors who allow me to stay. That is where you said you do not love the brethren.
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You are not as the brethren. You are an accuser of the brethren.

Totton Linnet said:
You have got to stop pretending, you pretend to be sinless and obedient.
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What kinds of sins are you doing all day everyday?
Don't you know you have to die to the sins of the world and live through Jesus, and that means obey?

Totton Linnet said:
You are just like meshak, she started a thread condemning the church for it's lax attitude toward divorce
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...and you condemn everyone too.

Totton Linnet said:
But she booted her husband out, she grabbed the family home and is now living off his pension.
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I thought you approved of disobedience? Didn't you boast in your disobedience?

Totton Linnet said:
She cannot see that it is stinking hypocrisy to complain that the church is lax on divorce.
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Jesus says we can separate and divorce, but not remarry as long as our spouse lives.

Totton Linnet said:
You are like her for you say to be saved we must be sinless and we must be obedient...
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You don't care if you lie about what someone said. Show me where I said we must be sinless to be saved.

Totton Linnet said:
but you are not sinless and in the matter of fellowship you are not obedient, you are not submitted to leadership as the scripture commands .

Why is this so? because you do not love the brethren. Christ's no1 command you are disobedient to.

You say I am not brethren, is there someone on TOL that you do accept?
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If you go to church and are still there even though you live in sin, then you should have been put out.

1 Corinthians 5:2 And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this?
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

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nikolai_42 said:
I'm afraid this is part of the reason I'm not going to simply answer question like Meshak asked straight up - not just because they don't change the OP - but because they cause contention. The issue is not whether someone is or is not in Christ (at least not for us to finally judge) but what Christ taught - and if it is His Word, it will find its place into the hearts of His sheep.

Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2 Corinthians 3:5

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
2 Cor 4:5

For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
2 Cor 10:12

We are told "You shall know them by their fruit". Not their statements, confessions, signatures, bumper stickers, associations etc...And just like we don't consciously produce our own fruit, we can't decide to tell others what our fruit is - it must speak for itself.
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You are an honourable brother Nik, you come here to share and debate and you think everyone is the same.

meshak does not come for those reasons, she is the servant of Satan come to disrupt, to throw mud at the church...I would have perma banned her years ago.

I don't know if you have ever preached in the open air, if you did you would instantly recognise shackles.
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

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meshak said:
More of Jesus' gems to come:)
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Bring them on do...it will hasten your ban.

TOL is peaceful when you are banned.

There are just 2 people I ever wanted banned from TOL, jerzy was one and you.

You should have been banned with him for supporting the muslims slaughter of Christians.

Murderers
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
We can know if we are saved now.

Saved

Acts 15:11
No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

2 Timothy 1:9
He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,


Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Luke 19:9
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For he says, “In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.

Philippians 2:12
[ Do Everything Without Grumbling ] Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

1 Peter 2:2
Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
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Good post!
 
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