Why can’t everyone have a chance to be drawn

[ttruscott]

Why can’t everyone have a chance to be drawn ?

Because some are unbelievers condemned already, Jn 3:18, for having committed the unforgivable sin before they are sown, planted not created, into the world, Matt 13:36-39.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

All may come to Him - but on His terms only.

Are all given a so-called gift of faith?

 

[Nanja]

Are all given a so-called gift of faith?

Nope, Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22 !

 

[beloved57]

Nope, Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22 !

Amen Sister in fact 2 Thess 3 :2

² And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith

 

[Nanja]

Amen Sister in fact 2 Thess 3 :2

² And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith

Exactly Brother!

 

[DAN P]

Nope, Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22 !

Hi Nanja , but Gal 5:22 is FRUIT not FRUITS as the Greek word FRUIT / KARPOS it GENDER is singular and that one singular INCLUDS verses 22-23 !!

and means ONE FRUIT !!

dan p

 

[ttruscott]

Who says that He doesn't give everybody a chance (Besides Calvinists, of course, who limit the Atonement to the "Elect", who are the only ones called.

Who besides calvinists? Those of us who believe in our pre-earthly existence and in Pre-Conception Existence theology also believe only the elect sinners on earth are called by grace.

The difference is that we do not accept the Calvinist's claim that He chose some but not all for no reason which they call UNconditional election which necessitates the belief in an UNconditional reprobation of those not chosen, ie, the condemnation of those for no reason of dismerit found in them at all but just by the whim of GOD.

But it's really only the Reformed (Calvinist) Paradigm that has created a genre of people that are NEVER called, were born to BURN, and have no choice in the matter.

Contrary to the Calvinist belief that some never had a choice, we believe we all heard the gospel before the creation of the physical universe as alluded to in Col 1:23 and Rom 1, and at that time we all either accepted YHWH by faith, ie without proof, as our GOD and the Son as the only saviour for sin or rejected HIM by faith in HIM being a false god and a liar without proof, the unforgivable sin. It was these free will decisions we made about our eternal relationship with YHWH and the Son that was the reason HE elected some, those who put their faith in HIM, to salvation from sin and to heaven and passed over those who rejected HIM by faith who sinned the unforgivable sin as unfit for anything but banishment to the outer darkness. When all sinners are sown, ie, planted - not created, into the world Matt 13:36-39, those who became HIS elect by faith have never been condemned but are under HIS promise of salvation but those who never put their faith in HIM are condemned already, Jn 3:18 not called.

We all had our calling pre-earth and responded in our innocence, setting our eternal fates forever. Why some of the elect sinned after their election and why the earth was chosen to be the place of their redemption is another part of the theology.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Who besides calvinists? Those of us who believe in our pre-earthly existence and in Pre-Conception Existence theology also believe only the elect sinners on earth are called by grace.

The difference is that we do not accept the Calvinist's claim that He chose some but not all for no reason which they call UNconditional election which necessitates the belief in an UNconditional reprobation of those not chosen, ie, the condemnation of those for no reason of dismerit found in them at all but just by the whim of GOD.



Contrary to the Calvinist belief that some never had a choice, we believe we all heard the gospel before the creation of the physical universe as alluded to in Col 1:23 and Rom 1, and at that time we all either accepted YHWH by faith, ie without proof, as our GOD and the Son as the only saviour for sin or rejected HIM by faith in HIM being a false god and a liar without proof, the unforgivable sin. It was these free will decisions we made about our eternal relationship with YHWH and the Son that was the reason HE elected some, those who put their faith in HIM, to salvation from sin and to heaven and passed over those who rejected HIM by faith who sinned the unforgivable sin as unfit for anything but banishment to the outer darkness. When all sinners are sown, ie, planted - not created, into the world Matt 13:36-39, those who became HIS elect by faith have never been condemned but are under HIS promise of salvation but those who never put their faith in HIM are condemned already, Jn 3:18 not called.

We all had our calling pre-earth and responded in our innocence, setting our eternal fates forever. Why some of the elect sinned after their election and why the earth was chosen to be the place of their redemption is another part of the theology.

ANd just when you KNOW it can't get more utterly ridiculous -

It does.

 

[ttruscott]

ANd just when you KNOW it can't get more utterly ridiculous -

It does.

I've been posting here for 8 years and still all you have is an ad hominem sneer campaign.

 

[oatmeal]

People always say God wishes none shall parish. Therr cannot be both. If salvation is only through grace of God choosing whom He allows to be drawn to Him then he is not giving everyone that he created a chance. How can people see that and see that as perfect loving ness toward all the humans that he created and puts pressure on to do all these things? But so many verses say He does as he pleases. I wish I would have been created in a way that my brain was simple and did not analyze and race cause its the worst type of mental wiring for faith. But faith is given by God anyways as a gift to those he chooses. And I found time and again specific words that showed exclusivity that Gid himself chose as who gets saved. As in those appointed or chosen believed as in the others tho they heard the word were not able to believe cause they had not been chosen to believe with the gift of Gid as faith.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him,

ohn 6:39
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.

John 6:65
Then Jesus said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him."

Acts 13:48
and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed

God is wise enough and has the foreknowledge to choose those whom he knows beforehand who will believe

 

[Lon]

People always say God wishes none shall parish. Therr cannot be both. If salvation is only through grace of God choosing whom He allows to be drawn to Him then he is not giving everyone that he created a chance. How can people see that and see that as perfect loving ness toward all the humans that he created and puts pressure on to do all these things? But so many verses say He does as he pleases. I wish I would have been created in a way that my brain was simple and did not analyze and race cause its the worst type of mental wiring for faith. But faith is given by God anyways as a gift to those he chooses. And I found time and again specific words that showed exclusivity that Gid himself chose as who gets saved. As in those appointed or chosen believed as in the others tho they heard the word were not able to believe cause they had not been chosen to believe with the gift of G[o]d as faith.

God has a prescriptive and decretive will.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him

This is simply a statement of condition, not a prohibition. The true God draws men through Jesus Christ, it does not mean God doesn't want to draw all men, at least in this particular verse.

ohn 6:39
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.

John 12:32 "All men," some for life, some for death: 2 Corinthians 2:16 Daniel 12:2

John 6:65
Then Jesus said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him."

Acts 13:48
and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed

Be careful of double-predestination. The Lord Jesus Christ said 'an enemy' planted tares. It is important because we don't want to contradict the scriptures. Our faith MUST account all scriptures.