The same word is used here:
15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
The Greek word πρωτος can mean “first,” but it doesn’t always have to mean “first.” There are many examples in the New Testament of πρωτος that mean foremost, chief, most important. I believe the translators got it right when they chose “foremost” for the word in that particular context, because 1 Tim. 1:13 shows that Paul believed himself to be a woefully appalling sinner.Hi , and I am sorry to tell you that the Greek word for FIRST is PROTOS and not Foremost !!
PROTOS can mean :
#1 , The opposite of LAST !!
#2 , Denotes FIRST of all !!
No, πρωτοτοκος in Col. 1:15 doesn’t mean “worst born.” The reason some translators chose to use the word “worst” for πρωτος in 1 Tim. 1:15 is not because the word actually means “worst.” When πρωτος is used in a non-chronological sense, πρωτος means “best.” Instead of saying Paul was the “best” sinner, some translators used the word “worst” because when you’re the “best sinner,” you’re really the worst. The “best sinner" is, in fact, the worst one.#3 , Then there is FIRST-BEGOTTEN which the Greek word PROTOTOKOS , which means WORST -BORN , is that how the word is used ??
The Greek word πρωτος can mean “first,” but it doesn’t always have to mean “first.” There are many examples in the New Testament of πρωτος that mean foremost, chief, most important. I believe the translators got it right when they chose “foremost” for the word in that particular context, because 1 Tim. 1:13 shows that Paul believed himself to be a woefully appalling sinner.
No, πρωτοτοκος in Col. 1:15 doesn’t mean “worst born.” The reason some translators chose to use the word “worst” for πρωτος in 1 Tim. 1:15 is not because the word actually means “worst.” When πρωτος is used in a non-chronological sense, πρωτος means “best.” Instead of saying Paul was the “best” sinner, some translators used the word “worst” because when you’re the “best sinner,” you’re really the worst. The “best sinner" is, in fact, the worst one.
You claim that this text says Paul was the first person to be saved by grace. If people prior to Paul weren’t saved by grace, what were they saved by? Can anyone be saved by works?
This is off-topic, but you used PROTOTOKOS as evidence that protos means first in a chronological sense. If PROTOTOKOS (πρωτοτοκος) means first in a chronological sense, then in what sense was Christ born first in a chronological sense?
Okay, but the pattern certainly can’t be “saved by grace” because Paul wasn’t the first sinner saved by grace. Everyone who’s saved is saved by grace! No one has ever been saved by works.Hi , and the CONTEXT of 1 Tim 1:15-16 is the Paul is a PATTERN and is FIRST/PROTOS , Jesus Christ might show forth all long suffering , for a PATTERN to them which should hereafter believe on Him to life everlasting .
The context is SALVATION and not for us to BOAST how Worst of sinners we all are !!
dan p
Okay, but the pattern certainly can’t be “saved by grace” because Paul wasn’t the first sinner saved by grace. Everyone who’s saved is saved by grace! No one has ever been saved by works.
Dan, can anyone be saved by works? Yes or No
So, we agree that the kingdom group is not saved by works. Great!Hi , and Eph 2:9 says " Not of WORKS , lest any man should BOAST " .
DAN P
Okay, because Paul wasn’t the first sinner saved by grace.
All who are ever saved are saved by grace!Hi , and " because Paul wasn't the FIRST/PROTOS sinner saved by Grace " , who is the first one saved by Grace ??
Where is that verse ??
dan p
All who are ever saved are saved by grace!
We're not told, but I assume it was Adam.Hi , and you did not answer who was the FIRST/PROTOS that was saved by Grace ??
Like who ??
dan p
We're not told, but I assume it was Adam.
If I had to guess, I'd say, Adam. Nothing wrong with that. I'm not going to be dogmatic about it. Fact is, we're simply not made privy as to who God chose to save first.Hi so in other words , you are ASSUMING , good trick !!
You must have a rule on when to ASSUME ??
Is this YOUR rule of thumb , for interpreting the Bible ??
ASSUMING ??
dan p