Theology Club: The promises of God are ours

Totton Linnet

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That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

But NOW in Christ Jesus ye who were sometimes afar off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

For He is our peace, who hath made us both one and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us

Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances for to make Himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

It is not the PROMISES of God, whatsoever those promises may be in the OT which do not belong to us Gentiles it is the LAW contained in ordinances which do not apply

Whatever we see promised to the Jews is promised to us but we do not have to obey commandments to receive those promises...we have them by grace through faith in Christ
 

Desert Reign

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The promises of God are ours


Excellent!
I have a promise box too. I take out one every day. Easy to understand - no need to read the surrounding context. Great for ordinary people just like me. If I am feeling a bit down I cheat, though. I take out two or even three at once. I know that's not very Christian, but I just love those promises.
And the great thing is that they are all promises and you don't have to do anything. The other day, I had one that said 'You are my disciples'. It is so comforting. There was none of that complicated stuff for very advanced Christians like 'By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another.' I am just an ordinary Christian and I am proud of it. I am not perfect and I sin like everyone else. Why should I bust a gut trying to be different? I am not arrogant or clever. I find it great that these promises are for everyone, including people who are less well endowed than even me. They are important, meaningful and memorable. There are no commandments to obey and no texts to learn. You don't even need to go to church. They cut to right to the chase: 'You are my disciples'. In your face.
 
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Danoh

New member
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

But NOW in Christ Jesus ye who were sometimes afar off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

For He is our peace, who hath made us both one and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us

Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances for to make Himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

It is not the PROMISES of God, whatsoever those promises may be in the OT which do not belong to us Gentiles it is the LAW contained in ordinances which do not apply

Whatever we see promised to the Jews is promised to us but we do not have to obey commandments to receive those promises...we have them by grace through faith in Christ

Read Ephesians 2 in light of Romans 9-11.

Ephesians 2: 11-12 relates how things were before Israel fell. It is why verse 17 refers to Israel as "them that were nigh."

Ephesians 2: 13 then relates how things began to, and have continued to work this side of Israel's fall.

With Israel's fall, the Prophesied restoration of its commonwealth, Acts 1:6; Acts 3:19-20, and all the rest, and what was Prophesied would be through that Nation's rise, Isaiah 2:1-5; 60: 1-3, Acts 3: 24-26, was now not the issue - not during "this Mystery" Age.

And it will not be the issue once more, until some point after "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in," Rom. 11:25-29.

In between Romans 11:25 and 11:26 is Isaiah 60:2's return of the Lord in His wrath to purge Israel of its rebels, and "restore again" their kingdom, Acts 1:6, 11; Acts 3:23; Matt. 13:37-43.

In this, Romans and Ephesians as to these issues, are in light of Israel having been temporarily concluded Uncircumcision - "under sin" with the Gentiles, Acts 7:51 in light of Matt. 12:30-32, etc.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
[Whatever we see promised to the Jews is promised to us but we do not have to obey commandments to receive those promises...we have them by grace through faith in Christ

Are the promises given to the Jews in regard to the "land" for us?:

"And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever" (Ez.37:25).​
 

Totton Linnet

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Are the promises given to the Jews in regard to the "land" for us?:

"And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever" (Ez.37:25).​

I knew someone would come up with that one:)

Okay I concede, the land is promised to Israel, and yet I do say this, in that age ALL things are going to be reconciled in Christ, whether they be things in heaven or things on earth. It is to be a united Kingdom. The church, Jew and Gentile reigning with Christ in heaven and ethnic Israel reigning with Christ on earth.
 

Totton Linnet

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Read Ephesians 2 in light of Romans 9-11.

Ephesians 2: 11-12 relates how things were before Israel fell. It is why verse 17 refers to Israel as "them that were nigh."

Ephesians 2: 13 then relates how things began to, and have continued to work this side of Israel's fall.

With Israel's fall, the Prophesied restoration of its commonwealth, Acts 1:6; Acts 3:19-20, and all the rest, and what was Prophesied would be through that Nation's rise, Isaiah 2:1-5; 60: 1-3, Acts 3: 24-26, was now not the issue - not during "this Mystery" Age.

And it will not be the issue once more, until some point after "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in," Rom. 11:25-29.

In between Romans 11:25 and 11:26 is Isaiah 60:2's return of the Lord in His wrath to purge Israel of its rebels, and "restore again" their kingdom, Acts 1:6, 11; Acts 3:23; Matt. 13:37-43.

In this, Romans and Ephesians as to these issues, are in light of Israel having been temporarily concluded Uncircumcision - "under sin" with the Gentiles, Acts 7:51 in light of Matt. 12:30-32, etc.

Israel per se is not the issue in this matter, whether they be grafted out or in, the issue is the olive tree, the issue is our common access to the Father, we are now made partakers of the promises and fellow citizens of the commonwealth.

I understand your point well enough though but I see it differently.

The reason the church has failed to capitalise on the great promises [how many they are and how great] is not because Israel is laid aside although we know ethnic Israel is laid aside until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in...but as long as there is a remnant there is Israel, it is their commonwealth we are made fellow citizens, their promises we are made partakers of...their olive into which we are grafted.

The problem is the church is by and large cut off from Israel and has been since the very early centuries. And still is today, the Catholics were the first to cut Israel off, the Lutheran reformation carried that doctrine over, the Covenant people also cut Israel off.......

And so does the MADianites........it is this separation between Jew and Gentile that was the cause of such fierceness in Pauls argument. Because Peter withdrew himself, not because he tried to join the Gentiles. It was a terrible row, so much so that it cost Paul John Mark and Barnabas.

Paul was fighting for total equality for the Gentiles....yet without obedience to the law.

It IS about the Millennium, for the Mill is the Kingdom, the Commonwealth and I've always been glad that MAD preaches the Mill.

But WE the church are the kingdom now in the earth, the kingdom is in us, in our aspirations, in our prayers and it ought to be in our preaching.

What?

The promises of God, pardon for sure and the new creation...but all those other good promises too. Healing, deliverance, prosperity, victory over evil and over the evil one.

There is a partial realisation of this in the church, there always has been, take for example the Salvation Army, it is a coming about of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth [in it's early days] but I say...

I say the church has barely scratched the surface of all that God has prepared for His glorious church, we are living far, far, below what is potentially ours in Christ...we's suppose to be an out of sight more glorious people than the Jews were with there less glorious covenant.
 

Danoh

New member
Israel per se is not the issue in this matter, whether they be grafted out or in, the issue is the olive tree, the issue is our common access to the Father, we are now made partakers of the promises and fellow citizens of the commonwealth.

I understand your point well enough though but I see it differently.

The reason the church has failed to capitalise on the great promises [how many they are and how great] is not because Israel is laid aside although we know ethnic Israel is laid aside until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in...but as long as there is a remnant there is Israel, it is their commonwealth we are made fellow citizens, their promises we are made partakers of...their olive into which we are grafted.

The problem is the church is by and large cut off from Israel and has been since the very early centuries. And still is today, the Catholics were the first to cut Israel off, the Lutheran reformation carried that doctrine over, the Covenant people also cut Israel off.......

And so does the MADianites........it is this separation between Jew and Gentile that was the cause of such fierceness in Pauls argument. Because Peter withdrew himself, not because he tried to join the Gentiles. It was a terrible row, so much so that it cost Paul John Mark and Barnabas.

Paul was fighting for total equality for the Gentiles....yet without obedience to the law.

It IS about the Millennium, for the Mill is the Kingdom, the Commonwealth and I've always been glad that MAD preaches the Mill.

But WE the church are the kingdom now in the earth, the kingdom is in us, in our aspirations, in our prayers and it ought to be in our preaching.

What?

The promises of God, pardon for sure and the new creation...but all those other good promises too. Healing, deliverance, prosperity, victory over evil and over the evil one.

There is a partial realisation of this in the church, there always has been, take for example the Salvation Army, it is a coming about of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth [in it's early days] but I say...

I say the church has barely scratched the surface of all that God has prepared for His glorious church, we are living far, far, below what is potentially ours in Christ...we's suppose to be an out of sight more glorious people than the Jews were with there less glorious covenant.

"Fellow citizens with the saints" refers to members of the Body (comprised of formerly lost, in Uncircumcision Jews, Acts 7:51, and formerly lost Gentiles, Eph. 2:11) as fellow citizens with "the Israel of God" ("they of the Circumcision which believed" Acts 10:45, before Israel was concluded in Uncircumcision).

At that time, both these two agencies of God had co-existed on this Earth:

The Little Flock, Luke 12:32 - that Matthew 16:18 church He added to, from Acts 2, see Acts 2:47, and thru to just a little after Acts 7:51.

And the Body, that began after Israel's fall, Rom. 11:11.

The Israel of God diminishing away, as the Body continued towards its yet reached fulness, some time after which, the Israel of God will once more be the issue towards its own fulness, and so on, Rom. 11:25-29.

When He has accomplished through both what He has set to do through each, this will culminate in the Dispensation of the Fulness of times, when He turns all back unto the Father, 1 Cor. 15:24.
 

Totton Linnet

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Silver Subscriber
"Fellow citizens with the saints" refers to members of the Body (comprised of formerly lost, in Uncircumcision Jews, Acts 7:51, and formerly lost Gentiles, Eph. 2:11) as fellow citizens with "the Israel of God" ("they of the Circumcision which believed" Acts 10:45, before Israel was concluded in Uncircumcision).

At that time, both these two agencies of God had co-existed on this Earth:

The Little Flock, Luke 12:32 - that Matthew 16:18 church He added to, from Acts 2, see Acts 2:47, and thru to just a little after Acts 7:51.

And the Body, that began after Israel's fall, Rom. 11:11.

The Israel of God diminishing away, as the Body continued towards its yet reached fulness, some time after which, the Israel of God will once more be the issue towards its own fulness, and so on, Rom. 11:25-29.

When He has accomplished through both what He has set to do through each, this will culminate in the Dispensation of the Fulness of times, when He turns all back unto the Father, 1 Cor. 15:24.

I'm not arguing with the sequence of events, I am glad that MAD recognises it.

What I am saying is a mistake is being made in this intermediate period while Israel is laid aside.

What I hear on every side is "yes, yes, the spiritual promises are for us, but the earthly promises are for or were for the Jews, so long as they obeyed the commandments"

I say those promises are for us...but not through obedience to commandments but by grace through faith.

We have been made partakers of the promises, co-heirs and fellow citizens of the commonwealth of Israel
 
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