The Changing Views of Modern Christians

[PureX]

AMR posted an interesting link on one of the closed theology threads, and I found myself agreeing with many of the changes that are happening in the views that modern American Christians are expressing about Christian religious dogma.

First, here is the link: The State of Theology

And here are some of the findings presented in it:

Americans want god on their own terms. Some results reflect healthy thinking, but many of the results show the lack of orthodox thinking about god. This is especially true of questions related to the Trinity. 1-in-5 Americans deny that Jesus is the god-man. One third of Americans think the Father is more divine than the Son. The member of the Trinity that is the least understood in the United States is the Holy Spirit. Nearly two thirds (63%) think the Holy Spirit is a force and not a person.

• More than 6-in-10 Americans deny the doctrine of the personhood of the Holy Spirit. 64% agree “The Holy Spirit is a force, not a personal being.”

I find myself agreeing with a number of these positions, and I feel it's a positive sign that others are considering Christianity in what appears to be a more realistic and functional light, than that of the past.

Americans perceive goodness to be a better description of people.

• Only 16% agree with the doctrine that says “People do not have the ability to turn to god on their own initiative.”
• Instead of acknowledging depravity, the majority of Americans believe the good in people can outweigh the bad:
~ 67% agree “everyone sins at least a little, but most people are by nature good.”
~ 4-in-10 agree “god loves me because of the good I do or have done.”​

It's not at all surprising that the ideology of Christianity is changing. Even in spite of the many and ongoing efforts at thwarting change. But I am a little surprised to find these changes reflecting modern perceptions and values to the degree that they are. (Though I don't know why I should be, as I suppose it's only natural.)

Anyway, I see this as a positive sign, and I'm just wondering what others think.

 

[journey]

What God sets in place is the only thing that really matters. God's Word is the place to look for what matters.

 

[ok doser]

AMR posted an interesting link on one of the closed theology threads, and I found myself agreeing with many of the changes that are happening in the views that modern American Christians are expressing about Christian religious dogma.

First, here is the link: The State of Theology

And here are some of the findings presented in it:



I find myself agreeing with a number of these positions, and I feel it's a positive sign that others are considering Christianity in what appears to be a more realistic and functional light, than that of the past.



It's not at all surprising that the ideology of Christianity is changing. Even in spite of the many and ongoing efforts at thwarting change. But I am a little surprised to find these changes reflecting modern perceptions and values to the degree that they are. (Though I don't know why I should be, as I suppose it's only natural.)

Anyway, I see this as a positive sign, and I'm just wondering what others think.

looks like what you're saying is that a lot of people are determined to remain lost


why do you think this is a good thing?

 

[PureX]

What God sets in place is the only thing that really matters. God's Word is the place to look for what matters.

We will each decide for ourselves what matters to us. Just as you have done. And those choices will tend to change as the times and the people making them change. As it should be, and as it has been ordained, by God.

 

[journey]

We will each decide for ourselves what matters to us. Just as you have done. And those choices will tend to change as the times and the people making them change. As it should be, and as it has been ordained, by God.

You can go against the wishes of God, but that doesn't change what God sets in place.

 

[Crucible]

Christianity is progressively becoming unoffensive and watered down- there's a lot of telling people what they want to hear- especially for the purpose of boasting a high flock in church.

This is not something too recent either. JC Ryle, a bishop in the mid 1800's even expressed this:

“There is a common, worldly kind of Christianity in this day, which many have, and think they have enough-a cheap Christianity which offends nobody, and requires no sacrifice-which costs nothing, and is worth nothing.”

It's a quote I've mentioned a couple of times through the several months I've been around, as it empowers the old spirit of Christianity. The way I see it, is that if modern liberals are against the ways of 19th century Christianity- than it is simply dishonest to perpetuate an idea that today's standards are commensurate to Christian ideology.

This world is no longer in an age of Christian expansion and conservation, but has long been transferring to the age of Revelation. Isaac Newton believed that the Apocalypse would occur in 2060, and all the signs, amazingly, seem to be pointing right to that relative point.

 

[egyptianmuslim]

AMR posted an interesting link on one of the closed theology threads, and I found myself agreeing with many of the changes that are happening in the views that modern American Christians are expressing about Christian religious dogma.

First, here is the link: The State of Theology

And here are some of the findings presented in it:



I find myself agreeing with a number of these positions, and I feel it's a positive sign that others are considering Christianity in what appears to be a more realistic and functional light, than that of the past.



It's not at all surprising that the ideology of Christianity is changing. Even in spite of the many and ongoing efforts at thwarting change. But I am a little surprised to find these changes reflecting modern perceptions and values to the degree that they are. (Though I don't know why I should be, as I suppose it's only natural.)

Anyway, I see this as a positive sign, and I'm just wondering what others think.

Jesus will tell who is who

 

[Jose Fly]

Christianity is progressively becoming unoffensive and watered down- there's a lot of telling people what they want to hear- especially for the purpose of boasting a high flock in church.

The step between Christianity and non-belief is "watered down Christianity". Western society is increasingly moving towards non-belief and this middling version of Christianity is part of that process.

Good to see. :up:

 

[PureX]

You can go against the wishes of God, but that doesn't change what God sets in place.

I'm not sure what the point of this comment is. God has given us freedom of thought and action. One must presume that this is because God wants us to use them, as we see fit. We are choosing who we are and who we are becoming through this freedom of will and one must assume that this is God's will for us. How could it be otherwise?

 

[PureX]

The step between Christianity and non-belief is "watered down Christianity". Western society is increasingly moving towards non-belief and this middling version of Christianity is part of that process.

Good to see. :up:

I don't entirely agree.

I think for some this is the case, but I think for many this morphing of religious Christianity toward realism is being driven by their desire NOT to give up on it. I think they recognize both their need for it (Christ), and the viability of it (the Christian ideal), but they need to eliminate the absurd threats and superstitions to make the dogma logically accessible.

And I do applaud this, as you do, … though for different reasons.

 

[Jose Fly]

I don't entirely agree.

I'm not surprised.

I think for some this is the case, but I think for many this morphing of religious Christianity toward realism is being driven by their desire NOT to give up on it. I think they recognize both their need for it (Christ), and the viability of it (the Christian ideal), but they need to eliminate the absurd threats and superstitions to make the dogma logically accessible.

My point about middling Christianity wasn't for the individual level, but more directed at the societal and generational level.

And I do applaud this, as you do, … though for different reasons.

No doubt.

 

[ok doser]

The step between Christianity and non-belief is "watered down Christianity". Western society is increasingly moving towards non-belief and this middling version of Christianity is part of that process.

Good to see. :up:

"non-belief"


so you think it's a good thing that people don't believe in anything?

 

[patrick jane]

I can't stand people that try to make God complicated. They try to make it seem there are things to be done for salvation. That's what leads people away from Christianity.

 

[Jose Fly]

so you think it's a good thing that people don't believe in anything?

I think the further away society moves from belief in gods, the better.

 

[ok doser]

I think the further away society moves from belief in gods, the better.

unless those gods are ones you approve of, right?

 

[Selaphiel]

Americans want god on their own terms. Some results reflect healthy thinking, but many of the results show the lack of orthodox thinking about god. This is especially true of questions related to the Trinity. 1-in-5 Americans deny that Jesus is the god-man. One third of Americans think the Father is more divine than the Son. The member of the Trinity that is the least understood in the United States is the Holy Spirit. Nearly two thirds (63%) think the Holy Spirit is a force and not a person.

• More than 6-in-10 Americans deny the doctrine of the personhood of the Holy Spirit. 64% agree “The Holy Spirit is a force, not a personal being.”

I'm more concerned with the lack of understanding and the depth of religious thinking that lies behind than the actual positions themselves. If someone who thinks the Holy Spirit is just a force denies the trinity, then it is not a lot of weight to that denial even if a lot of people hold to it. Have they considered the theological implications of the alternative views?

"Americans wants god on their own terms". Of course everyone are entitled to their opinion, but most of the time these cooked up individualized conceptions are rather lacking in depth and consideration compared to more traditional communal formulations (that goes for all the religious traditions, not just Christianity. For example: The mind numbing mindfulness only Buddhism. It is horrifying and in many cases it serves the exact opposite purpose of that of meditation within a proper Buddhist context).

So it isn't plurality and alternative views per se that is the problem. Rather it is the turning of religion into a consumer product determined by individual desires, lacking in any form of serious reflection.

Americans perceive goodness to be a better description of people.

• Only 16% agree with the doctrine that says “People do not have the ability to turn to god on their own initiative.”
• Instead of acknowledging depravity, the majority of Americans believe the good in people can outweigh the bad:
~ 67% agree “everyone sins at least a little, but most people are by nature good.”
~ 4-in-10 agree “god loves me because of the good I do or have done.”

I think most of those are incredibly naitve points of view. Not just from the point of view of Christian tradition (I sincerely doubt that there has been any reflection surrounding the Christian concept of sin and man as 'incurvatus se' preceeding these conclusions), but also from a psychological view. That all people are sinners do not mean that all people are roasting babies on fire.

Whenever I see modern new forms of religion, I quickly get rather nostalgic for the good old traditions, whether it is Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism or what have you. Of course these traditions needs to be constantly re-expressed in new contexts, but that is a very different approach from simply writing them off. And I am no conservative Christian nor does it mean that tradition should be accepted without criticism, I simply think that religion that simply dismisses tradition often is shallow and bland.

There are good ways to be a real modern progressive Christain. And there are some mind numbingly dumb and shallow ones.

 

[Jose Fly]

unless those gods are ones you approve of, right?

Not sure what you're talking about.

 

[ok doser]

Not sure what you're talking about.

oh, you guys worship gods all right

multiculturalism, feminism, sustainability, mmcc, atheism

 

[Jose Fly]

oh, you guys worship gods all right

multiculturalism, feminism, sustainability, mmcc, atheism

Sure....whatever.

 

[PureX]

My point about middling Christianity wasn't for the individual level, but more directed at the societal and generational level.

But don't you think the latter follows the former? As times change, the people change. And as the people change, the dogma changes with them. Over time it becomes "tradition", but it begins as contemporary theology. The religion of Christianity that we see, today, bares little resemblance to what it was in it's beginning. And the process of change is inevitable, in spite of the intense insistence to the contrary. So those changes are still taking place. And will continue to do so.