Stumblingblock Truths of the Gospel !

[beloved57]

popsthebuilder

So you agree that reconciliation and salvation aren't synonymous?

No, I dont agree with that false notion. Why would you ask me that ? Reconciliation, Salvation, Redemption, Forgiveness of sins are all the same, just different aspects of Salvation being highlighted ! I have a thread on reconciliation if you want to see my views on it:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?86278-Reconciled-to-God-while-enemies-!&highlight=

 

[marhig]

i dont believe in your jesus and would never follow him !

Well here's the thing, my Jesus is teaching me that through him, I'm to have faith and I'm to love and trust in God, and if I love him then I'm to turn from sin, I'm to deny myself, I'm to be a doer if the word, I'm to bare my cross and follow him. And that he'll help me overcome through the indwelling spirit.

You're Jesus is teaching you that you only have to say you believe, and that Jesus died on the wooden cross for you so sinning is ok, no problem you're still going to heaven because God won't see your sins and it's all done for you, so you can carry on and live your life in the flesh.

I know which Jesus is the truth, God abhors sin, and he wants us to be dead to our flesh and this world, and that Christ, through the spirit will strengthen us to overcome. If we believe and turn to God and do his will, and turn away from our flesh and sin. And Jesus said, have no fear for I have overcome the world.

And because he has overcome, he can strengthen us to overcome the world and Satan too, if we truly believe, have faith, and follow him.

Only Satan teaches that even if we wilfully sin were saved! That's what he did to Eve with his go on, you disobey God, don't worry you won't surely die!

I believe my flesh has to die for Christ to live, you believe that Christ died for your flesh to live.

I know the truth, you believe what you will!

 

[beloved57]

Well here's the thing, my Jesus is teaching me that through him, I'm to have faith and I'm to love and trust in God, and if I love him then I'm to turn from sin, I'm to deny myself, I'm to be a doer if the word, I'm to bare my cross and follow him. And that he'll help me overcome through the indwelling spirit.

You're Jesus is teaching you that you only have to say you believe, and that Jesus died on the wooden cross for you so sinning is ok, no problem you're still going to heaven because God won't see your sins and it's all done for you, so you can carry on and live your life in the flesh.

I know which Jesus is the truth, God abhors sin, and he wants us to be dead to our flesh and this world, and that Christ, through the spirit will strengthen us to overcome. If we believe and turn to God and do his will, and turn away from our flesh and sin. And Jesus said, have no fear for I have overcome the world.

And because he has overcome, he can strengthen us to overcome the world and Satan too, if we truly believe, have faith, and follow him.

Only Satan teaches that even if we wilfully sin were saved! That's what he did to Eve with his go on, you disobey God, don't worry you won't surely die!

I believe my flesh has to die for Christ to live, you believe that Christ died for your flesh to live.

I know the truth, you believe what you will!

I have no interest whatsoever what you believe about your jesus, please believe that !

 

[marhig]

I have no interest whatsoever what you believe about your jesus, please believe that !

Not anything? Not even to say that you know that we have to turn from sin?

No you don't know my Jesus at all, and yes I believe very much that you have no interest in him! Because it would mean that you would have to give up your worldly lusts to believe in him, and we can't have now that can we!

 

[beloved57]

Not anything? Not even to say that you know that we have to turn from sin?

No you don't know my Jesus at all, and yes I believe very much that you have no interest in him! Because it would mean that you would have to give up your worldly lusts to believe in him, and we can't have now that can we!

I have absolutely no interest in your god or jesus. Dont know your god/or jesus and dont want to know about them !

 

[beloved57]

Predestination is a stumblingblock truth of the Gospel, for the Gospel is a Gospel of Gods Grace, and its role in Salvation Acts 20:24

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

of which predestination is a prominent feature. Eph 1:5-6

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

 

[Nanja]

Predestination is a stumblingblock truth of the Gospel, for the Gospel is a Gospel of Gods Grace, and its role in Salvation Acts 20:24

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

of which predestination is a prominent feature. Eph 1:5-6

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Amen Brother, predestination is certainly a stumbling block in testifying of the Gospel of the Grace of God. However it is mandatory to preach, as you have , that Grace was Sovereignly and discriminately given to God's Elect exclusively; only a remnant of mankind which was predestinated from Everlasting, or before the World began 2 Tim. 1:9, and which in time shall be given a saving knowledge and Testimony of it of it 2 Thess. 2:13 in New Birth !

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother, predestination is certainly a stumbling block in testifying of the Gospel of the Grace of God. However it is mandatory to preach, as you have , that Grace was Sovereignly and discriminately given to God's Elect exclusively; only a remnant of mankind which was predestinated from Everlasting, or before the World began 2 Tim. 1:9, and which in time shall be given a saving knowledge and Testimony of it of it 2 Thess. 2:13 in New Birth !

Amen Sister, praise God for you !

 

[Nanja]

Amen Sister, praise God for you !

Praise God for you as well Brother !

 

[beloved57]

What does the preaching of the cross mean? The preaching of the cross or gospel is a apparent denotation to the Person of Christ, Who He is; the Work of Christ, what He did; and for whom Christ did it, the purpose, and, therefore, the matter of His atoning Death: who actually profits. We cannot divorce Who Christ is from what He did, and, therefore, for whom He did it. He died. And, through that Sacrificial and Substitutionary Death He accomplished something: Christ Jesus the Lord obtained salvation for all those for whom He died. He did not merely make salvation possible, but He obtained redemption for those whom God had given Him, His Sheep, Gods Elect, His Body the Church.

Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice/death cannot be separated from the efficiency of it. What Christ's atoning work has accomplished can never be abstract from its efficaciousness and, therefore, for whom it was accomplished.

Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

This is because He hath for them obtained eternal redemption Heb 9:12

 

[DAN P]

1 Cor 1:24

²³ But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Two of the most hated and resisted Truths of the Gospel, a stumblingblock to the natural, carnal mind of man are #1 Election of Grace !


First of all election of grace is eternal in that God chose certain individuals, a remnant from mankind in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

⁴ According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This Grace of Election was given them In Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

⁹ Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Purpose and Grace both refer to election. The Election of Grace Rom 11:5

⁵ Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

¹¹ (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Now Two things about this eternal election of Grace that men war against. #1. Its always only for a remnant of men, and not all men without exception, hence Paul calls the elect among the jews a remnant Rom 11:5

⁵ Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Now even in the OT concerning the jews, Isaiah writes of them Isa 1:9

⁹ Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

Thats why Jesus says of the nation of Israel, under National Covenet this Matt 22:14

For many are called, but few are chosen.

See, not all ethnic jews that comprised ethnic Israel under the OC, were chosen of God only a few of them, out of the many of that nation !

So one of the stumblingblock truths of election of Grace, or salvation by grace, it is the fact that its limited to only a remnant, whether a remnant amongst the jews or a remnant amongst the gentiles ! Sorry, but all without exception cannot be of the election of Grace !

And when looking up Eph 1:4 the Greek word " chosen / eklegomai " ( G1586 ) and not the word election / ekloge .

Christ " chose " us " before /pro " the overthrow of world .

Israel , in Matt 13:35 was chosen " apo /from and kept secret from the foundation of the world .

Look at G1589 and see the difference .

dan p

 

[marke]

GOD surely knows which direction a man will ultimately turn. Does that mean election is based on the deeds of man? GOD forbid. It is a testament to the omniscience and potence of GOD alone, and a strengthening, and peace to the obedient.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

Election and condemnation are not ultimately based upon works. Good works do not merit entrance into heaven and bad works are not the primary reason for condemnation. Salvation and condemnation are based upon believing or rejecting the word of God preached by the Holy Spirit. Works are not the issue in that.

 

[beloved57]

Another stumblingblock truth of the Gospel is the fact that God has created from one lump of clay, mankind, some vessels unto honor [salvation] which are called vessels of mercy, and He has created from the same lump some vessels unto dishonor [damnation] which He calls vessels of wrath, which He fits for destruction Rom 9:20-23

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

 

[marke]

Another stumblingblock truth of the Gospel is the fact that God has created from one lump of clay, mankind, some vessels unto honor [salvation] which are called vessels of mercy, and He has created from the same lump some vessels unto dishonor [damnation] which He calls vessels of wrath, which He fits for destruction Rom 9:20-23

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Calvinists misunderstand the Bible in multiple passages. It is as though their stubborn focus on an erroneous understanding of election blinds them to other doctrinal issues as well. Their interpretation of Romans 9 is an example of their poor understanding of what the Bible teaches about the Potter. God did not make vessels fitted to destruction from scratch. That is a key point and they err by missing that key point.

Calvinists teach that the Potter determined to make vessels of mercy or to make vessels of destruction from the outset, clearly intending from the very start to make vessels as He chose by deliberate design without regard to human responses to His working in their lives. That is not true.

Examine Jeremiah 18 to learn of the Potter and the clay. If God begins working the clay intending to make a good vessel but finds the vessel becomes hardened against His working, it is only then that God determines to "remake" the lump He began with into a vessel of wrath. There was no indication that God had always designed to make the vessel a vessel of wrath. Calvinists teach that God never intended on having to rework something He originally started but that did not turn out right the first time.

1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,

2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.

3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.

4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying,

6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;

8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;

10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

 

[beloved57]

What are the deep things of God ?

1 Cor 2:10

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Paul is seaking in the context of the theme of the Gospel of Christ, His Cross and Him crucified, we gather this from Vs 1-2

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

and this was precded by 1 Cor 1:17-31

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

So its not a difficult stretch to understand the deep things of God to be in connection with the Preaching of the Gospel of Christ, The wisdom of God.

 

[beloved57]

The wisdom of God is the deep things of God, ts comprised of the Eternal Acts of the GodHead from eternity Past. The establishment of His decrees that are manifested in time, like the death of Christ for His People, this was setup afore-time Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Acts 4:27-28

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

The Eternal Purposes of God are the deep things of God, the counsels of His Heart Ps 33:11

The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

Our Salvation in Christ is according to the counsel of the Lord Eph 1:5,11

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

So in Preaching the Gospel Paul declares Acts 20:27

For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. That is the deep things of God !