ECT remit and retain sins?

[Tambora]

John 20:23 KJV
(23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.


Give your view of what you believe this verse is saying. What does 'remit' and 'retain' mean in this context?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

John 20:23 KJV
(23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Give your view of what you believe this verse is saying. What does 'remit' and 'retain' mean in this context?

Before we get into the meaning of those things I think that it is first necessary to see if those things are for today.

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Mt.16:18-19).​

Here the Lord refers to the "keys of the kingdom of heaven," the same kingdom referred to here by the Lord Jesus:

"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Mt.4:17).​

Since the nation of Israel failed to recognize the Lord Jesus as their promised Messiah the setting up of the earthly kingdom has been postponed until the return of the Lord Jesus to earth:

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).​

It will not be until the kingdom is brought to earth when the Apostles will "bind on earth" what "shall be bound in heaven." That will not happen until the Apostles will sit upon twelve tribes judging the twelve tribes of Israel in the kingdom:

"That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Lk.22:30).​

This speaks of the millennial reign of the Lord Jesus, the time when Israel will be restored to her previous position of being a special people unto the Lord. Therefore the "keys of the kingdom of heaven" have nothing to do with what is happening now within the Body of Christ.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

John 20:23 KJV
(23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.


Give your view of what you believe this verse is saying. What does 'remit' and 'retain' mean in this context?

I agree with Jerry that it is referring to the Millenium, and Israel will be a priesthood to the nations, and will be able to remit and retain sins.

 

[jamie]

John 20:23 KJV (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

In presenting the keys to the kingdom Peter explained that baptism is for the remission of sin.

Baptism is for the remission of sins based on repentance. We need to show the fruits of repentance before baptism.

We should not be too quick to baptize a person. The holy Spirit baptizes through us.

Sins are retained until baptism when the old person dies and a new person is resurrected.

 

[Tambora]

I had to hunt for this.
It is a view by our most lovable John W.



The authority of the 12 under the prophetic kingdom program-explaining "early Acts"

"And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city." Isaiah 1:26

A King, ruling a kingdom, on earth=land. And just when did the preceding happen? It hasn't. Thus, by rightly dividing the word of truth(everyone divides), the following scriptures make sense in a millennial, 1000 year framework, i.e., and just who are those princes ruling in judgment, these that will be in "The city of righteousness"? :

On earth-the 12:

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."Mt. 19:28

"And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Luke 22:29,30

And this explains the following scripture, when viewed in context of the 1000 year millennial kingdom,and the preceding verses with respect to "judgment"/serving as judges(all the apostles), where the Jews will be "the head, not the tail", and have privileged status. The following scripture has been used by the RCC to justify priests "forgiving sins"- apostolic succession, Peter is "the vicar of Christ", the "pope"=the head of 'the' church on earth, as Peter's alleged successor......


And this has resulted in "protestants" doing little more than ignoring these verses, these clear statements, preferring to "water them down" with nonsensical reservations and/or apologies. And thus, those who refuse to view the Holy Bible dispensationally perform mental gymnastics in explaining this verse away,by "spiritualizing" them, or dismissing them("Well, it does not really mean......." )

"And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Mt. 16:19

"Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matthew 18:18

"Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." John 20:21-23

No, the answer is dispensational(this is a biblical word, and a good one at that) and concerns the position which the 12 and other apostles will have in the promised, literal, earthly millennial kingdom according to prophecy-AUTHORITY:

"And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Luke 22:29,30

The 12 were were to be the official rulers of Israel on earth in the Lord Jesus Christ's kingdom. An official must have authority! Mt. 21:43 stresses that the kingdom was to be taken away from them then ruling Israel-the apostate, unbelieving Jewish leadership:

"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.' Mt. 21:43

And to what "nation" was this earthly kingdom to be given?:

"Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom." Luke 12:32 (not he body of Christ, which is never referred to a "nation").

We learn from:

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Mt. 19:28


That authority in the kingdom was to centralized in the 12. And we learn from Matthew 16:19 that the Lord Jesus Christ chooses Peter as the chief of the 12, and personalizes this authority in him:

"And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matthew 16;19

And hence, this explains the early Acts occurrence of Peter :

"And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)...' Acts 1:15

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?' Acts 2:37

Thus Peter personally, and "the little flock" represented by the 12, were given divine authority. Mt. 18:18-20 is not a "prayer promise", but identifies what would constitute a quorum for official action. And this authority extended to the remission of sins per John 20:21-23. And how could this authority be put into the hands of "fallible", sinful men?:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." Jn. 16:13

"But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak." Mt. 10:19


"But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost." Mk. 13:11


"And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost." John 20:22

Remember, per Acts 1:3, the Lord Jesus Christ taught his followers for 40 days his specific instructions="Boot Camp" for 40 days!

Again:

"To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:... Acts 1:3
Realized at Pentecost:

"And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence." Acts 1:4,5

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:4

"This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." Acts 2:32,33

"And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness." Acts 4:31

(vs. Paul's instruction in this dispensation: "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;..." Ephesians 5:18)


And Ezekiel 36:27 declares regarding this:

"For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God." Ezekiel 36:24-28

Thus, they were fully equipped for such an authoritative position, being endued with "power from on high", and thus "100%/no error" capable of executing the authority the Lord Jesus Christ placed in their hands, including JUDGMENT. And this explains the official action Peter took in the "absence of the King" in Acts 4/5(previous posts on other threads).

Another infallible action-choosing the successor to Judas per Acts 1-Matthias. And this explains the urgency of choosing, by divine "lot", Matthias to replace Judas-12 apostles for 12 thrones set up in the millennial kingdom


link:

 

[steko]

:thumb:

Just taught this last night.... but, I do frequently. It's a key element in understanding the big picture.

Thanks Saint Tam and Saint John.

 

[DAN P]

John 20:23 KJV
(23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.


Give your view of what you believe this verse is saying. What does 'remit' and 'retain' mean in this context?

Hi and I see it this way !!

#1 , The first verb is YE REMIT says it was for that time PASRT TENSE and speaks to the apostles earthly ministry !!

#2 , But it is controled by the SUBJUCTIVE MOOD as what will happen !!

#3 If the Jews accept that REMITTANCE and it is done by REPENTANCE and by WATER BAPTISM it is in the PRESENT TENSE of Continuous action , during that time of the apostles ministry !

#4 , If they , who sins ARE RETAINED is in the Perfect tense for ever !!

It is obviously that Water Baptism will again be used in the Tribulation as written in Mark 16:16 !!~

dan p

 

[DAN P]

John 20:23 KJV
(23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.


Give your view of what you believe this verse is saying. What does 'remit' and 'retain' mean in this context?

Hi and I see it this way !!

#1 , The first verb is YE REMIT says it was for that time PASRT TENSE and speaks to the apostles earthly ministry !!

#2 , But it is controled by the SUBJUCTIVE MOOD as what will happen !!

#3 If the Jews accept that REMITTANCE and it is done by REPENTANCE and by WATER BAPTISM it is in the PRESENT TENSE of Continuous action , during that time of the apostles ministry !

#4 , If they , who sins ARE RETAINED is in the Perfect tense for ever !!

It is obviously that Water Baptism will again be used in the Tribulation as written in Mark 16:16 !!~

Juding is a mtranslitered verb , with many meaning aand it will happen in the Milennial Kingdom !!

dan p