RSR's List of Fine Tuned Features
This is the show from Friday September 27th, 2013
Summary:
* Another Fun RSR List Show: In Real Science Radio's List of the Fine Tuned Features of the Universe, Bob Enyart quotes leading scientists and their astounding admission of the uncanny and seemingly never-ending list of the just-perfect finely tuned parameters of the physical features of the Earth, the solar system, and the entire cosmos. This program is brought to you by God, maker of heaven and earth and other fine products!
* The Finely Tuned Parameters of the Universe: Barrow & Tipler, in their standard treatment, The Anthropic Cosmological Principle, admit that "there exist a number of unlikely coincidences between numbers of enormous magnitude that are, superficially, completely independent; moreover, these coincidences appear essential to the existence of carbon-based observers in the Universe," and include the wildly unlikely combination of:
- the electron to proton ratio with a standard deviation of 1 in 10 to the 37th
- the electron to proton mass ratio
- the gravitational force constant
- the electromagnetic force constant, and
- the electromagnetic force in the right ratio to the nuclear force, etc.
* The Whopping Phyiscs Coincidence: NewScientist reports about gravity and acceleration that, "a large chunk of modern physics is precariously balanced on a whopping coincidence" for, regarding gravitational and inertial mass, "these two masses are always numerically exactly the same. The consequences of this coincidence are profound..."
* The Finely Tuned Parameters of the Earth include:
- Earth has a nearly circular orbit (eccentricity ~ 0.02)
- the Earth-Moon relationship
- the Moon's nearly circular orbit (eccentricity ~ 0.05)
- the just-right ozone layer
- the Earth's spin rate
- the atmospheric pressure
- the phenomenally harmonious water cycle
- the liquid water that exists because the Earth is the right distance from the Sun, etc.
- photosynthesis dependence on quantum physics as reported in the journal PNAS
- water doesn't break down because of quantum effects as New Scientist concludes, "We are used to the idea that the cosmos' physical constraints are fine-tuned for life. Now it seems water's quantum forces can be added to this 'just right' list."
* Anthropic Circular Reasoning from Krauss to RSR: Bob quoted Walter ReMine (1993, p. 61) to theoretical physicist (emphasis on the theoretical) Lawrence Krauss that his anthropic principle is as satisfying as a doctor saying, "The reason that your father is deaf is because he can't hear." Along with atheists generally, Krauss uses the Anthropic Principle to explain away the extraordinarily unlikely precise values of the many finely-tuned parameters like those listed above, including the one in 10,000 decillion odds against us having a virtually perfect one-to-one electron-to-proton ratio. They make the philosophical argument that it is not surprising that the universe has all the necessary fine tuning for life, for otherwise, we wouldn't be here to notice. In this way they deflect attention onto the observer and away from the very design of the universe that they are pretending to explain. Meanwhile, Stephen Hawking admits, while faithfully adhering to the anthropic doctrine, "The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life. For example, if the electric charge of the electron had been only slightly different, stars either would have been unable to burn hydrogen and helium, or else they would not have exploded [as beautiful supernovas]" (Hawking, Brief History of Time, p. 129). And in Hawking's book, The Grand Design, he quotes a famed astronomer, "[Fred] Hoyle wrote, 'I do not believe that any scientist who examined the evidence would fail to draw the inference that the laws of nuclear physics have been deliberately designed with regard to the consequences they produce...'" with Hawking adding, "At the time no one knew enough nuclear physics to understand the magnitude of the serendipity that resulted in these exact physical laws" (p. 159).
* Fine Tuned Quotes: British astrophysicist Paul Davies said, "There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming." NASA astronomer John O'Keefe said, "We are, by astronomical standards, a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in." Nobel prizer winner physicist Arno Penzias said, "Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say 'supernatural') plan." See these and many similar quotes sourced.
* Beware the Fine Tuning Claims of Hugh Ross: Consider the difference between studying the fine-tuning of the scientifically discernable universe as compared to the fine tuning required for some science fiction story. Bob Enyart ended his debate with famed atheist AronRa observing that a professional evolutionist is, "like a renowned Star Wars trivia buff, able to distinguish between a juvenile Wookiee and a mature Ewok, and explain from geology what froze the oceans on Hoth and how Tatooine was covered by dessert." Anyone creating a list of the fine-tuning of physics required for sci-fi (Lawrenece Krauss comes to mind
is hopefully entertaining himself. When presenting fine-tuning arguments, a distinction should be made between the tuning that is necessary for the life and the reality that actually exists, as compared to the tuning needed to accommodate some theory of origins. The universe and the life in it are actualities that a valid understanding of the fine-tuning issue must account for. Someone's theory of origins (as with Ross' trust in the Big Bang and its planetary and chemical evolution stories) may be false. Thus basing one's fine-tuning claims on one's theory makes those claims that much less compelling. However, such theory-based fine-tuning, for example if shown to be contradictory, could apply toward the falsification of that theory.
Fine-tuning for Life on Earth vs. an Imaginary Planet: Ross has long put unjustified faith in the ad hoc secular theories of solar system formation. By 2013, the growing database of exoplanet characteristics has trashed those models after they were body slammed by real things like retrograde orbits and hot jupiters. Yet Ross has always included in his fine tuning calculations for life on Earth things like the orbital parameters of Jupiter, etc., whereas those calculations are now known to be irrelevant, since they were based on the likelihood of natural planetary formation by theories that are now known to be "clearly, thoroughly wrong." As the standard model itself is likewise body slammed by relentless astronomical observation, many of Ross' fine-tuning requirements will be seen as only fanciful except that they will help to falsify the very theory that Ross based them on: the big bang.
Fine-tuning for Actual Life vs. for Abiogenesis: The same distinction should be made between the fine-tuning required for actual life, and for the hypothesis of abiogenesis. By the biological law of biogenesis, life only comes from life. (This is even consistent with biblical teachings regarding the origin of spirit beings.) If life has never arisen naturally from inanimate material, then a list a mile long of the physics and chemistry fine-tuning required for abiogenesis is valuable only as a falsification tool.
Request of Creationist and Intelliigent Design Scientists: Our technical experience here at RSR is in software engineering and not physics. So for now, on this topic we are somewhat at the mercy of Darwinian journal articles. So we call upon creationist and ID physicists, chemists, cosmologists, and astrophysicists, to make these necessary distinctions. Thus, we are hesitant to add to our list of fine-tuning various claims found in Ross' material and, for example, in the classic Anthropic Cosmological Principle text, which states that, "the ratio of the number of photons to protons" which must "lie within a very narrow range to allow carbon-based life to arise." Thinker beware.
Forget Relativity, Beware the General Unreliability: See rsr.org/hugh-ross for examples of this old-earth author's general unreliability, whether the topic is science, linguistics, or theology.
This is the show from Friday September 27th, 2013
Summary:
* Another Fun RSR List Show: In Real Science Radio's List of the Fine Tuned Features of the Universe, Bob Enyart quotes leading scientists and their astounding admission of the uncanny and seemingly never-ending list of the just-perfect finely tuned parameters of the physical features of the Earth, the solar system, and the entire cosmos. This program is brought to you by God, maker of heaven and earth and other fine products!
* The Finely Tuned Parameters of the Universe: Barrow & Tipler, in their standard treatment, The Anthropic Cosmological Principle, admit that "there exist a number of unlikely coincidences between numbers of enormous magnitude that are, superficially, completely independent; moreover, these coincidences appear essential to the existence of carbon-based observers in the Universe," and include the wildly unlikely combination of:
- the electron to proton ratio with a standard deviation of 1 in 10 to the 37th
- the electron to proton mass ratio
- the gravitational force constant
- the electromagnetic force constant, and
- the electromagnetic force in the right ratio to the nuclear force, etc.
* The Whopping Phyiscs Coincidence: NewScientist reports about gravity and acceleration that, "a large chunk of modern physics is precariously balanced on a whopping coincidence" for, regarding gravitational and inertial mass, "these two masses are always numerically exactly the same. The consequences of this coincidence are profound..."
* The Finely Tuned Parameters of the Earth include:
- Earth has a nearly circular orbit (eccentricity ~ 0.02)
- the Earth-Moon relationship
- the Moon's nearly circular orbit (eccentricity ~ 0.05)
- the just-right ozone layer
- the Earth's spin rate
- the atmospheric pressure
- the phenomenally harmonious water cycle
- the liquid water that exists because the Earth is the right distance from the Sun, etc.
- photosynthesis dependence on quantum physics as reported in the journal PNAS
- water doesn't break down because of quantum effects as New Scientist concludes, "We are used to the idea that the cosmos' physical constraints are fine-tuned for life. Now it seems water's quantum forces can be added to this 'just right' list."
* Anthropic Circular Reasoning from Krauss to RSR: Bob quoted Walter ReMine (1993, p. 61) to theoretical physicist (emphasis on the theoretical) Lawrence Krauss that his anthropic principle is as satisfying as a doctor saying, "The reason that your father is deaf is because he can't hear." Along with atheists generally, Krauss uses the Anthropic Principle to explain away the extraordinarily unlikely precise values of the many finely-tuned parameters like those listed above, including the one in 10,000 decillion odds against us having a virtually perfect one-to-one electron-to-proton ratio. They make the philosophical argument that it is not surprising that the universe has all the necessary fine tuning for life, for otherwise, we wouldn't be here to notice. In this way they deflect attention onto the observer and away from the very design of the universe that they are pretending to explain. Meanwhile, Stephen Hawking admits, while faithfully adhering to the anthropic doctrine, "The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life. For example, if the electric charge of the electron had been only slightly different, stars either would have been unable to burn hydrogen and helium, or else they would not have exploded [as beautiful supernovas]" (Hawking, Brief History of Time, p. 129). And in Hawking's book, The Grand Design, he quotes a famed astronomer, "[Fred] Hoyle wrote, 'I do not believe that any scientist who examined the evidence would fail to draw the inference that the laws of nuclear physics have been deliberately designed with regard to the consequences they produce...'" with Hawking adding, "At the time no one knew enough nuclear physics to understand the magnitude of the serendipity that resulted in these exact physical laws" (p. 159).
* Fine Tuned Quotes: British astrophysicist Paul Davies said, "There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming." NASA astronomer John O'Keefe said, "We are, by astronomical standards, a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in." Nobel prizer winner physicist Arno Penzias said, "Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say 'supernatural') plan." See these and many similar quotes sourced.
* Beware the Fine Tuning Claims of Hugh Ross: Consider the difference between studying the fine-tuning of the scientifically discernable universe as compared to the fine tuning required for some science fiction story. Bob Enyart ended his debate with famed atheist AronRa observing that a professional evolutionist is, "like a renowned Star Wars trivia buff, able to distinguish between a juvenile Wookiee and a mature Ewok, and explain from geology what froze the oceans on Hoth and how Tatooine was covered by dessert." Anyone creating a list of the fine-tuning of physics required for sci-fi (Lawrenece Krauss comes to mind
is hopefully entertaining himself. When presenting fine-tuning arguments, a distinction should be made between the tuning that is necessary for the life and the reality that actually exists, as compared to the tuning needed to accommodate some theory of origins. The universe and the life in it are actualities that a valid understanding of the fine-tuning issue must account for. Someone's theory of origins (as with Ross' trust in the Big Bang and its planetary and chemical evolution stories) may be false. Thus basing one's fine-tuning claims on one's theory makes those claims that much less compelling. However, such theory-based fine-tuning, for example if shown to be contradictory, could apply toward the falsification of that theory.Fine-tuning for Life on Earth vs. an Imaginary Planet: Ross has long put unjustified faith in the ad hoc secular theories of solar system formation. By 2013, the growing database of exoplanet characteristics has trashed those models after they were body slammed by real things like retrograde orbits and hot jupiters. Yet Ross has always included in his fine tuning calculations for life on Earth things like the orbital parameters of Jupiter, etc., whereas those calculations are now known to be irrelevant, since they were based on the likelihood of natural planetary formation by theories that are now known to be "clearly, thoroughly wrong." As the standard model itself is likewise body slammed by relentless astronomical observation, many of Ross' fine-tuning requirements will be seen as only fanciful except that they will help to falsify the very theory that Ross based them on: the big bang.
Fine-tuning for Actual Life vs. for Abiogenesis: The same distinction should be made between the fine-tuning required for actual life, and for the hypothesis of abiogenesis. By the biological law of biogenesis, life only comes from life. (This is even consistent with biblical teachings regarding the origin of spirit beings.) If life has never arisen naturally from inanimate material, then a list a mile long of the physics and chemistry fine-tuning required for abiogenesis is valuable only as a falsification tool.
Request of Creationist and Intelliigent Design Scientists: Our technical experience here at RSR is in software engineering and not physics. So for now, on this topic we are somewhat at the mercy of Darwinian journal articles. So we call upon creationist and ID physicists, chemists, cosmologists, and astrophysicists, to make these necessary distinctions. Thus, we are hesitant to add to our list of fine-tuning various claims found in Ross' material and, for example, in the classic Anthropic Cosmological Principle text, which states that, "the ratio of the number of photons to protons" which must "lie within a very narrow range to allow carbon-based life to arise." Thinker beware.
Forget Relativity, Beware the General Unreliability: See rsr.org/hugh-ross for examples of this old-earth author's general unreliability, whether the topic is science, linguistics, or theology.
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