Real Science Radio: Dr. Spencer Answers HPT Objections

Jefferson

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Dr. Spencer Answers HPT Objections

This is the show from Friday, February 5th, 2016

SUMMARY:

* Flood Model Email Discussion Between Docs: Bob Enyart interviews Dr. Joshua Spencer, Ph.D. in Nuclear Engineering, about his email conversation with a leading creation geologist debating the fountains-of-the-great-deep hydroplate theory (HPT) model of the global flood as compared to the catastrophic plate tectonics (CPT) model. Running out of broadcast time, Enyart and Spencer decided to postpone to next week's interview discussion of the HPT's explanation of the origin of Earth's radioactivity. Beginning with today's program they address:
1. the false notion of Pangea and the fit of the continents (which deceptively shrinks Africa by 35% to make it work)
2. an objection that the HPT model can't explain the Appalachian Mountains
3. the frequent misunderstanding by its opponents of Dr. Walt Brown's HPT
4. the CPT idea that magma rising from the mantel produced the jets of water that rained down upon the earth
5. a denial that the CPT model depends on a series of ad hoc miracles to make it work
6. the majority-rules argument that creationists should trust CPT because more geologists support it than the HPT
7. the assessment from this leading CPT geologist that the "HPT still gets a hearing in many circles. And CPT is not as widely well received as you might think."

* In Connecticut? Join Josh and his wife Dr. Devon Spencer at their Saturday April 2, 2016 creation conference. Details are at http://creationct.com.

* Kuhn on the Contribution of Outsiders: When RSR hears the invalid arguments against Walt Brown's HPT that “no creation geologist supports HPT” and “what does he know, he is not a geologist”, we think of Thomas Kuhn's acclaimed work, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, where he wrote:

Almost always the men who achieve these fundamental inventions of a new paradigm have been either very young or very new to the field whose paradigm they change… these are men who, being little committed by prior practice to the traditional rules of normal science, are particularly likely to see that those rules no longer define a playable game and to conceive another set that can replace them.

John Dalton, for example, the father of atomic theory and Bible believing creationist, began his career not as a chemist but as a meteorologist.

* Comment from Wisconsin Listener: "I am looking forward to part two next week. While listening to Dr. Spencer it struck me that opponents of the HPT often mention one thing that they are convinced (often in error) that Walt Brown's theory cannot explain, while ignoring the dozens and dozens of significant features that it DOES EXPLAIN explain, simply and logically, and/or are perfectly consistent with the HPT explanation – including some recent discoveries below its surface and beyond its orbit." - Jane Albright P.E., engineer formerly with the U.S. Navy nuclear program
 
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gcthomas

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1. the false notion of Pangea and the fit of the continents (which deceptively shrinks Africa by 35% to make it work)

Just ... no. It's a lie from Brown, and a foolishly naïve one at that, since it is shamelessly transparent with no evidence to support the claim. (Unless ... perhaps Brown was confused by the distortions from projecting the continents from a globe to a flat picture? But surely not, not the über-genius Brown. :nono: )
 

Bob Enyart

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From Walt's book and site:

View attachment 23696
Figure 50: Continental Fit Proposed by Edward Bullard. Can you identify five distortions in this popular explanation of how the continents once fit together? First, Africa was shrunk in area by 35%. Second, Central America, southern Mexico, and the Caribbean Islands were removed. Third, Australia is ignored, because it’s fit anywhere is problematic—and where is Asia? Fourth, a slice was made through the Mediterranean, and Europe was rotated counterclockwise and Africa was rotated clockwise. Finally, North and South America were rotated relative to each other. Notice the rotation of the north-south and east-west lines. Overlapping areas are shown in black. Scientific justifications are not given for any of these five distortions.

See more at https://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/HydroplateOverview4.html
 

genuineoriginal

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1. the false notion of Pangea and the fit of the continents (which deceptively shrinks Africa by 35% to make it work)
Try cutting the continents off a globe and fitting the pieces together in a globular shape instead of using the distorted continents from a Mercator projection on a flat surface.
Several people that have done that now believe in the expanding Earth hypothesis.
Africa does not need to be shrunk on a globe, just on a flat Mercator projection map.
 

gcthomas

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The Mercator projection that you r clip criticises was designed to preserve bearings, for navigation, and everyone who uses it for its intended use knows that areas are not represented. How is it that the presenter of the talk is unaware of this simple fact? ALL flat maps are inaccurate in one sense or another, while being accurate in specified others, because the Earth is spherical and his maps are flat.
 
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gcthomas

New member
From Walt's book and site:

View attachment 23696
Figure 50: Continental Fit Proposed by Edward Bullard. Can you identify five distortions in this popular explanation of how the continents once fit together? First, Africa was shrunk in area by 35%. Second, Central America, southern Mexico, and the Caribbean Islands were removed. Third, Australia is ignored, because it’s fit anywhere is problematic—and where is Asia? Fourth, a slice was made through the Mediterranean, and Europe was rotated counterclockwise and Africa was rotated clockwise. Finally, North and South America were rotated relative to each other. Notice the rotation of the north-south and east-west lines. Overlapping areas are shown in black. Scientific justifications are not given for any of these five distortions.

See more at https://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/HydroplateOverview4.html

You are looking at a flat projection of the rearrangement of the continents that was calculated in three dimensions mathematically and projected for you to see. You don't really think that Africa was shrunk, do you? Honestly?

Have you read the paper from which your copyrighted map image was taken? I'm guessing not, as you are repeating falsehoods that are addressed in the paper and you are not listening to those who understand what was done. To help, the paper lists these points about the reconstruction:
2. Restoration of the continents around the Atlantic was achieved by minimizing the misfit between the true continental margins (edge of the continental shelf at the 50 fathom line, about 900 m) not the shorelines. Snug and convincing fits were achieved.

3. Torsional rigidity of the continents was assumed because distortion of continents and their margins would prohibit fitting. The superb fit demonstrates torsional rigidity.

4. Fitting of continental margins was done by using finite difference angular rotations around axes passing through the centre of Earth intersecting Earth's surface at poles of rotation. Euler's theorem was used to make the finite difference rotations.

5. Rifted continental margins may be very sharp with a rapid transition from continent to ocean, the ideal margin that fits cleanly. Overlaps were explained mainly as the growth of deltas since continental separation and voluminous basaltic lava fields.

6. Underlaps are mainly the result of continental stretching rather than a sharp break.
From the Royal Society at http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/373/2039/20140227

You really ought to abandon your erroneous claim of a 35% area reduction of Africa, as it is trivial to demonstrate its falsehood, along with the other criticisms.
 
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