Real Science Friday: Geneticist re. Christianity Today Denying Adam

Jefferson

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Geneticist re: Christianity Today Denying Adam

This is the show from Friday, June 29th 2012.

BEST QUOTE OF THE SHOW:
Bob Enyart: If we look at this region of DNA, and we say, "Well, that variation could have come from mutation over 5 million years. But we look at this big chunk, say of the Y chromosome, and they say, "Wow, we're not finding the variation we thought. You'd have this much variation just in 20,000 years. Wouldn't the younger date be the one logically that would tend to prevail?

Georgia Purdom: It might be logically but people, a lot of times, are illogical when it comes to this because they know if they go with the lower numbers, then it's just going to give more support to the Biblical ideas and they don't want to do that.

SUMMARY:



* AiG Molecular Geneticist on RSF for the Anniversary of CT's Fiasco: Real Science Friday's Bob Enyart interviews Georgia Purdom, Ph.D. in Molecular Genetics from Ohio State University on Christianity Today's denial that God made Adam from the dust of the earth. One year ago CT published their cover story, The Search for the Historical Adam which rejected the truth of Scripture for the bizarre old-earth idea that God put human souls into perhaps a couple hundred, or a couple thousand, animals which had evolved from ape-like creatures. CT's story claimed that genetic science requires this reinterpretation of God's Word. Enter Dr. Purdom.


* Molecular Genetics Expert Rejects the Christianity Today Compromise: Dr. Georgia Purdom, Answers in Genesis molecular geneticist who has published papers in peer-reviewed journals including in the Journal of Neuroscience is qualified to speak to the issue. Dr. Purdom also invites folks to see AiG's Ark Encounter project a 500-foot long life-sized Ark out of wood just as Noah would have!



* Dr. Purdom says that the Junk DNA Isn't Junk: Even Scientific American reports that, "The term 'junk DNA' repelled mainstream researchers from studying noncoding genetic material for many years." This reminds the RSF crew of the DVD, Bob Debates an Evolutionist when BEL hosted a debate in 1998 with one of the world's leading anti-creationist scientists, Dr. Eugenie Scott. In her losing maneuver, the evolutionist scientist flubbed her prediction about genetics, whereas the creationist talk show host hit the bull's-eye. Refusing throughout to provide positive scientific evidence for evolution, Eugenie instead offered philosophical, negative evidence against creation. "Junk DNA," she said, which is a philosophical argument about what a Creator might or might not do; namely, that He wouldn't fill our genome with so much non-protein-coding DNA. While some simple worms have 20,000 genes, it is typically a small portion of DNA that actually codes for proteins. A human has only 20,500 genes, which fills only 2% of our genome. Yet the widespread evolutionary claim for decades (including through the last two decades, and for many, still clung to today) was that the rest of the genome was mostly left-over evolutionary garbage. Bob argued that our knowledge of genetics was in its infancy, and that it was too early to make the determination that all those non-coding segments of DNA had no function. Eugenie stated that we did not need to learn anything more about DNA in order to conclude that the noncoding DNA had no function. Bob offered her the opportunity to retract that statement. She turned down that offer. (You can hear all this online, or get the DVD!) The decade following that debate was one of explosive discoveries in genetics which overwhelmingly falsified Eugenie's claims and validated Bob's creationist perspective! For aside from coding for 20,500 proteins, geneticists estimate that the remainder of the genome has approximately one million other functional regulatory segments of DNA. So much for junk

* Looking Back to RSF's 2011 Christianity Today Program: For our audience's convenience, here's the show summary from last year's RSF show on CT's Search for Adam:

* Christianity Today Denies that God Made Adam from the Dust of the Earth: Real Science Friday co-hosts Fred Williams and Bob Enyart rebut the CT story, The Search for the Historical Adam, revealing the science and Scripture that Christianity Today choose not to include. CT omitted the many discoveries published by evolutionists in refereed scientific journals that support the Genesis account of the special creation of Adam and Eve in the recent past. And the magazine also failed to warn readers that the liberal churches that affirm abortion and homosexuality, and that even deny the resurrection of Jesus Christ, all began their moral and spiritual downward slide by denying the historicity of the foundational book of Genesis. Christianity Today is following in their footsteps with their claim that God put a human soul into animals that had evolved from ape-like creatures.

* Christianity Today's Missing Science: Bob and Fred present discoveries that Christianity Today happened to leave out of their article including:
- a Y-chromosomal Adam only a few thousand years old
- a 6,000-year old Mitochondrial Eve calculated using exclusively human genetic data
- Haldane's Dilemma on the far-too-slow rate at which tens of millions of hominid mutations can propagate species-wide
- the enormous dissimilarity of chimps and humans
- now sponges genes are 70% the same as human genes
- and the newly-compared and 30% "horrendously" different chimp Y-chromosome
Actual measured mutation rates, in fact, as reported by Ann Gibbons in Science magazine indicate that, if these rates have been constant, "mitochondrial Eve… would be a mere 6000 years old." See the latest in the scientific observations on the genetic information about Adam and Eve in Bob's article, Why Was Canaan Cursed?

* Christianity Today's Missing Scripture: As for the Scriptural implications of CT's allegation, Bob and Fred point out that Moses, Paul, and Jesus all referred to Adam as a literal person and the creation account is presented as historical, with Jesus reminding people that "from the beginning of the creation [not after billions of years], God made them male and female," ( Mark 10:6 ). Today Real Science Friday explains something that Christianity Today left out of their article, that CT and those who reject the literal meaning of Genesis, who:
- do away with a literal Adam, also
- do away with the biblical teachings of no death before Adam, and
- do away with the six literal days of creation, and
- do away with the global flood, and
- do away with the Tower of Babel, and
- do away with the "order" of the days of creation, and
- do away with God making man from the dust of the ground, and
- by claiming that "Adam" may have been an incorporation of thousands of individuals, they even undermine the New Testament's genealogy of Jesus Christ; also, such compromised Christians typically also
- do away with the the fall of Jericho, and
- do away with the historicity even of Joshua's battles, and
- do away with the book of Jonah, and with many other events that the Bible and Jesus present not as parables or symbols but as actual history. And as the foundation goes, so goes the temple of the house of God, and Christians then begin to see even the resurrection of Christ as a metaphor.







Today’s Resource: You'll just love the science DVDs, books, and written, audio and video debates offered by Real Science Friday! So have you browsed through our Science Department in the KGOV Store? Check out Bob most highly-recommended astronomy DVD, What You Aren't Being Told About Astronomy! And see Walt Brown’s great hardcover book, In the Beginning! You’ll also love Dr. Don Johnson's Programming of Life DVD and Dr. Carl Werner's Living Fossils DVD! And consider our RSF Science Pack; Bob Enyart’s Age of the Earth Debate; Bob's debate about Junk DNA with the infamous anti-creationist Dr. Eugenie Scott. And if you have young kids or grand kids, you owe it to them and to yourself to give them as a gift the SUPERB kids' radio programming on audio CD, Jonathan Park: The Adventure Begins! To order any of our RSF materials by phone, just call us at 1-800-8Enyart (836-9278).
 

Flipper

New member
I listened to the show and noticed that Bob Enyart reiterated two claims that he's made before...

Claim 1: At least one mitochondrial DNA analysis confirms that Mitochondrial Eve could have lived as recently as 7,000 years ago, so confirming a prediction of Young Earth Creationism.

Claim 2: DNA analysis of the Neanderthal genome confirms that Neanderthals are actually just H. sapiens.

I invite Bob to take a closer look at the evidence, and he will realize it is impossible for both of these statements to be true.

Why? Because Neanderthal mtDNA has been sequenced from a number of different specimens in different geographical areas, and it turns out that Neanderthal mtDNA has about 3.3 times the average differences when compared to the range of modern human variability.

nihms65170f2.jpg

Green: human/human comparisons;
Red: human/N'tal comparisons; Blue:
human/chimp comparisons.
X axis, the number of sequence differences; Y axis, the fraction of pairwise comparisons. (Green et al. 2008)


Which means that:
Analysis of the assembled sequence unequivocally establishes that the Neandertal mtDNA falls outside the variation of extant human mtDNAs, and allows an estimate of the divergence date between the two mtDNA lineages of 660,000 ± 140,000 years.

Source

Analysis of mtDNA evidence from Talk Origins...

It doesn't matter if he disagrees with the specific dating chronology, Bob is going to have to decide whether neanderthals are actually not human beings, or that the 6-7,000 year date he likes to cite for mitochondrial Eve is actually incorrect, and that the variance between humans and 'human' neanderthals open up that date very widely.

TBH, I think both are true - Neanderthals are not modern humans, and the mtDNA Eve date Bob prefers is wayyyy off, but he is going to have to chose one - he can't have it both ways.
 
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