lifeisgood
New member
Since the first day I entered this site one of the first topics I was confronted with was that some people are predestined to be saved and some people are predestined to be lost and there is nothing they can do about it. It caught me by surprised and I found myself so confused that I even thought of unsubscribing and going elsewhere.
I have always considered verses such as “choose ye this day whom ye will serve... but as for me and my house we will serve the LORD” (Joshua 24:15), as being ‘free will’ and not ‘predestination.’ If ‘predestination’ was the only option why would Joshua tell Israel to choose? Wouldn't they already be predestined? So, why worry about anything? So, why be told to choose?
If 'predestination' is all there is why preach? why do anything? why tithe? why the Bible? why worry about eternal life? why treat people with respect?, etc.
Obviously, I believed God predestined the Plan of Salvation. I also believed that His Son was predestined to come here and die on the Cross of Calvary for those who wanted to be part of His family. Jesus clearly indicated that His coming was planned, including His death (Luke 4:43; John 12:27). But I never thought of the word ‘predestination.'
So, I started to do a little research and almost gave up. There's so much confusion on the subject. So many different views.
However, I decided to keep reading and to my surprise found that verses such as Ephesians 3:11; 1 Corinthians 3:11; 2:7-8; 1 Peter 1:19-20 and 1 John 3:8 are examples that the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was "predestined" and "foreknown" by God fulfilling part of God's plan.
Isaiah 46:10-11 and Jeremiah 51:11, for example, claim that God used foreign rulers to alter history and free the Jews from Babylonian captivity.
The Bible also indicates that certain people are chosen by God for His purposes. Even though I knew all this, I never thought of it as ‘predestination,’ which tells me how much I still have to learn about God's Word. For example, King David, the Levites as priests of God, Abraham and the tribe of Judah all ‘predestined’ (2 Samuel 6:21; 1 Kings 8:16; 1 Kings 11:34; 1 Chronicles 28:4; Psalm 78:70; 1 Chronicles 15:2; Nehemiah 9:7; Psalm 78:68).
The NT says that God has chosen people for salvation. Jesus talk about those who are chosen by God during the end times. Jesus indicated that He chose the apostles for God's work and that it was not their own choice (Matthew 24:22, 24, 31; Mark 13:20, 22, 27; Luke 18:7; John 6:70; 15:16).
Paul uses the term “elect” to describe the ones who follow Jesus Christ. Paul tells us that we were chosen "before the foundation of the world," which John also affirms in the book of Revelation. He also says that we were predestined by God to follow Jesus Christ. There are also those good works that were prepared for us by God so that we walk in them. Jesus Himself said that He had chosen Paul as a minister of the Gospel. James indicates that God has chosen the poor people of the world for Salvation (Romans 8:33; Ephesians 1:4-5; 2 Timothy 1:8-9; Revelation 13:8; 17:8; Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:11; 2:10; Acts 26:16; James 2:5).
Some Christians affirm that God ‘predestines’ people for hell. In my research, I did not find that this concept is stated directly in the Bible, although the Bible indicates that God does use evil people to accomplish His purposes. People like evil Pharaoh was "raised up" to demonstrate God's power. God chose Jacob over his brother Esau. God chooses to have mercy on some people over others. John says that God will give the kingdom of Israel to the beast to fulfill His Word (Proverbs 16:4; Romans 9:17; 9:11-13; 9:15-16; Revelation 17:17).
Jesus said that He chose the apostles, including Judas, the one who would betray Him. Luke likewise says that evil Herod and Pontius Pilate were serving God's purposes (John 6:70; Acts 4:27-28).
These evil people who are predestined to serve the purposes of God through their evil will eventually go to hell. However, they still possessed ‘free will,’ but, no matter the situation they would have done evil anyway; they would have done evil no matter what. So, God foreknowing this, placed them in history to fulfill His purposes. God did not cause them to do evil, since God is not the author of evil. James 1:13 tells us not to blame God for their temptation.
NOW WHAT ABOUT “FREE WILL”?
The Bible provides many verses that specifically state that people have ‘free will’ to execute their own choices. God in Deuteronomy tells the people to choose to follow Him to receive His blessings (Deuteronomy 30:19)
Joshua tells the people to choose whom they will serve — God or the idols of their neighbors (Joshua 24:15)
Many other OT verses tell us to choose to follow the Lord (Psalm 25:12; Proverbs 1:29; 3:31; Isaiah 7:15; 56:4; 65:12; 66:4). If everything is 'predestined,' choice is not possible.
Besides the verses directing us to make choices, there are those verses that tell us how we are to live for God. There's got to be ‘free will’ to follow this advice and also we need the ability to choose. So, the Bible indicates pretty clearly that we are to make choices. If everything is 'predestined,' choice is not possible.
DID CHRIST DIE ONLY FOR SOME?
There are some that vociferously affirm that Jesus Christ died only for the elect few. However, the Bible quite clearly states that Jesus Christ died for the sins of ALL people and that He wants ALL people to come to repentance. If you reject the call of God, you will go to hell.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16)
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself" (John 12:32)
"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive" (1 Corinthians 15:22)
"For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf" (2 Corinthians 5:15)
"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men" (Titus 2:11)
"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9)
I am sure there are other verses.
THIS IS MY CONCLUSION
So if I am to be honesty I have to say that the Bible talks about both concepts. I never knew that. However, I also believe that we can have a balanced understanding of ‘predestination’ and ‘free will’ instead of a skewed view.
I believe God directs history. But, I do not believe He micro-manages history. I believe God places people in history to fulfill His Will. I also believe that the Bible encourages each and every one of us to use our ‘free will’ to choose Him and not be lost.
“...as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." (Joshua 24:15)
Hope this helps somebody else on their search of this subject.
I have always considered verses such as “choose ye this day whom ye will serve... but as for me and my house we will serve the LORD” (Joshua 24:15), as being ‘free will’ and not ‘predestination.’ If ‘predestination’ was the only option why would Joshua tell Israel to choose? Wouldn't they already be predestined? So, why worry about anything? So, why be told to choose?
If 'predestination' is all there is why preach? why do anything? why tithe? why the Bible? why worry about eternal life? why treat people with respect?, etc.
Obviously, I believed God predestined the Plan of Salvation. I also believed that His Son was predestined to come here and die on the Cross of Calvary for those who wanted to be part of His family. Jesus clearly indicated that His coming was planned, including His death (Luke 4:43; John 12:27). But I never thought of the word ‘predestination.'
So, I started to do a little research and almost gave up. There's so much confusion on the subject. So many different views.
However, I decided to keep reading and to my surprise found that verses such as Ephesians 3:11; 1 Corinthians 3:11; 2:7-8; 1 Peter 1:19-20 and 1 John 3:8 are examples that the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was "predestined" and "foreknown" by God fulfilling part of God's plan.
Isaiah 46:10-11 and Jeremiah 51:11, for example, claim that God used foreign rulers to alter history and free the Jews from Babylonian captivity.
The Bible also indicates that certain people are chosen by God for His purposes. Even though I knew all this, I never thought of it as ‘predestination,’ which tells me how much I still have to learn about God's Word. For example, King David, the Levites as priests of God, Abraham and the tribe of Judah all ‘predestined’ (2 Samuel 6:21; 1 Kings 8:16; 1 Kings 11:34; 1 Chronicles 28:4; Psalm 78:70; 1 Chronicles 15:2; Nehemiah 9:7; Psalm 78:68).
The NT says that God has chosen people for salvation. Jesus talk about those who are chosen by God during the end times. Jesus indicated that He chose the apostles for God's work and that it was not their own choice (Matthew 24:22, 24, 31; Mark 13:20, 22, 27; Luke 18:7; John 6:70; 15:16).
Paul uses the term “elect” to describe the ones who follow Jesus Christ. Paul tells us that we were chosen "before the foundation of the world," which John also affirms in the book of Revelation. He also says that we were predestined by God to follow Jesus Christ. There are also those good works that were prepared for us by God so that we walk in them. Jesus Himself said that He had chosen Paul as a minister of the Gospel. James indicates that God has chosen the poor people of the world for Salvation (Romans 8:33; Ephesians 1:4-5; 2 Timothy 1:8-9; Revelation 13:8; 17:8; Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:11; 2:10; Acts 26:16; James 2:5).
Some Christians affirm that God ‘predestines’ people for hell. In my research, I did not find that this concept is stated directly in the Bible, although the Bible indicates that God does use evil people to accomplish His purposes. People like evil Pharaoh was "raised up" to demonstrate God's power. God chose Jacob over his brother Esau. God chooses to have mercy on some people over others. John says that God will give the kingdom of Israel to the beast to fulfill His Word (Proverbs 16:4; Romans 9:17; 9:11-13; 9:15-16; Revelation 17:17).
Jesus said that He chose the apostles, including Judas, the one who would betray Him. Luke likewise says that evil Herod and Pontius Pilate were serving God's purposes (John 6:70; Acts 4:27-28).
These evil people who are predestined to serve the purposes of God through their evil will eventually go to hell. However, they still possessed ‘free will,’ but, no matter the situation they would have done evil anyway; they would have done evil no matter what. So, God foreknowing this, placed them in history to fulfill His purposes. God did not cause them to do evil, since God is not the author of evil. James 1:13 tells us not to blame God for their temptation.
NOW WHAT ABOUT “FREE WILL”?
The Bible provides many verses that specifically state that people have ‘free will’ to execute their own choices. God in Deuteronomy tells the people to choose to follow Him to receive His blessings (Deuteronomy 30:19)
Joshua tells the people to choose whom they will serve — God or the idols of their neighbors (Joshua 24:15)
Many other OT verses tell us to choose to follow the Lord (Psalm 25:12; Proverbs 1:29; 3:31; Isaiah 7:15; 56:4; 65:12; 66:4). If everything is 'predestined,' choice is not possible.
Besides the verses directing us to make choices, there are those verses that tell us how we are to live for God. There's got to be ‘free will’ to follow this advice and also we need the ability to choose. So, the Bible indicates pretty clearly that we are to make choices. If everything is 'predestined,' choice is not possible.
DID CHRIST DIE ONLY FOR SOME?
There are some that vociferously affirm that Jesus Christ died only for the elect few. However, the Bible quite clearly states that Jesus Christ died for the sins of ALL people and that He wants ALL people to come to repentance. If you reject the call of God, you will go to hell.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16)
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself" (John 12:32)
"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive" (1 Corinthians 15:22)
"For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf" (2 Corinthians 5:15)
"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men" (Titus 2:11)
"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9)
I am sure there are other verses.
THIS IS MY CONCLUSION
So if I am to be honesty I have to say that the Bible talks about both concepts. I never knew that. However, I also believe that we can have a balanced understanding of ‘predestination’ and ‘free will’ instead of a skewed view.
I believe God directs history. But, I do not believe He micro-manages history. I believe God places people in history to fulfill His Will. I also believe that the Bible encourages each and every one of us to use our ‘free will’ to choose Him and not be lost.
“...as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." (Joshua 24:15)
Hope this helps somebody else on their search of this subject.
