Lesbian Methodist Minister

[Lucky]

Lesbian Minister Defrocked by Methodist Court

Reuters.com

By Jon Hurdle

PUGHTOWN, Pennsylvania (Reuters) - A lesbian Methodist minister was defrocked on Thursday after being found guilty by an ecclesiastical court of violating a church law that bars its clergy from being practicing homosexuals.

A jury of 13 clergy from the United Methodist Church voted 12-1 that Irene Elizabeth Stroud had violated the church's Book of Discipline that says homosexuality is incompatible with being a minister. The jury then voted 7-6 to withdraw Stroud's ministerial credentials at the First United Methodist Church of Germantown in Philadelphia.

The decision came after a two-day public trial -- only the third in the history of the United Methodist Church -- in which Stroud, associate pastor at the church, was accused of violating church law by being an "a self-avowed practicing homosexual."

After the court's decision, Stroud said the close decision of the jury on the penalty showed how divided the church was on the issue of homosexuality.

"I feel a lot of sadness but I also feel hope for the future of the church," Stroud said. "I feel that this is a teaching moment for the church."

During an April, 2003 sermon, Stroud told her congregation that she was living in a committed relationship with another woman. She declined to practice celibacy or transfer to another, more tolerant denomination, and decided to be open about her sexuality.

After the announcement, Stroud's supporters from the Germantown church, some in tears, joined hands in the gymnasium where the trial was held and repeatedly sang a song that included the words "We are gay and straight together."

KEY ELECTION ISSUE

Same-sex marriage was a prominent issue in November's U.S. presidential election, with many conservative voters backing President Bush's reelection after his support for a constitutional ban on same-sex marriages.

Rev. Fred Day, senior pastor at Stroud's church, spoke of his "deep disappointment" at the verdict.

"This is not the United Methodist Church of our just heritage," he said.

Stroud can continue working at the church as a lay person but will not be able to perform ceremonies such as baptisms and weddings. She has 30 days to decide whether to appeal.

During his testimony, Rev. Day said that convicting Stroud because of her sexuality would be as discriminatory as making a judgment on the basis of color, ethnicity or economic status.

Day praised Stroud, 34, as an outstanding pastor and a person of "great spiritual integrity" who moves and inspires her congregation. "She cannot get through a baptism without us having to pause for a crying jag," Day told the court.

Questioned by church counsel Thomas Hall about whether it was acceptable for a minister to violate the discipline of the church, Day said, "The answer is clearly 'yes'."

"It is my belief that United Methodist discipline isn't clear on this subject," Day said, citing a church regulation stating homosexuals are of equal worth to people of other orientations. "How much worth do homosexuals have if they are not allowed to rise to positions of leadership?"

In his closing statement, Williams appealed to the jury to see the rights of all members of the church as equal.

Hall argued on behalf of the church that the denomination's Book of Discipline banned openly homosexual clergy, and told the jury that members of the church could not "negate" the regulations even if they object to them.

The United Methodist Church says on its Web site that it has some 8.25 million lay members and nearly 45,000 clergy in more than 35,000 local U.S. churches. It also has another 1.86 million members in 12 foreign countries.

 

[SOTK]

During his testimony, Rev. Day said that convicting Stroud because of her sexuality would be as discriminatory as making a judgment on the basis of color, ethnicity or economic status.

Yeah, heaven forbid, we as Christians, should be discriminatory against something God forbids.

:vomit:

 

[Lighthouse]

:think:
Would they be just as torn up over a heterosexual minister who was legally single, but had a live-in boyfriedn/girlfriend and was admitting to having sex with them, and not seeing it as wrong? Or, how about a minister who commits adultery, as if there's nothing wrong with that? And admits to it, from the pulipt...

:nono:

 

[Frank Ernest]

"During his testimony, Rev. Day said that convicting Stroud because of her sexuality would be as discriminatory as making a judgment on the basis of color, ethnicity or economic status."

Sooooooooo, according to the Rev. Day, God's Word must conform to man's earthly concerns and judgments. Interesting line of thought. Isaiah 5:20-21 comes to mind.

Also Dennis Prager quote in sig line.

 

[philosophizer]

The alternate title for this article could be:

Lesbian Methodist Minister Defrocked for Administering Lesbian Methods.

 

[Ecumenicist]

Originally posted by lighthouse

:think:
Would they be just as torn up over a heterosexual minister who was legally single, but had a live-in boyfriedn/girlfriend and was admitting to having sex with them, and not seeing it as wrong? Or, how about a minister who commits adultery, as if there's nothing wrong with that? And admits to it, from the pulipt...

:nono:

This analogy doesn't work, because heterosexual people have
a choice to express themselves within the confines of an
exclusive, committed relationship. Homosexual people have
no such choice in the church, their choices are celibacy or sin
in the eyes of the church.

And don't say "they could choose to be hetero," unless you are
willing to say you could "choose to be homo." I know I
couldn't, its not part of who I am.

The enemy is not homosexuality, its promiscuity, in all
relationships.

Dave

 

[philosophizer]

Originally posted by Dave Miller

The enemy is not homosexuality, its promiscuity, in all relationships.

Homosexuality is a problem. It's a sin and we should say so.

And, if I'm not mistaken, lighthouse's post was about rebuking promiscuity.

 

[Art Deco]

Originally posted by SOTK

Yeah, heaven forbid, we as Christians, should be discriminatory against something God forbids.

:vomit:

It aint over until the fat lady sings...stand by for a law suit in a civil court to re-instate the homo pastorette:




Note:The link can be found at www.worldnetdaily.com under: Minister Faces Suit For Following Bible (second news item from the top)

 

[Nineveh]

What is going on in Pennsylvania? Isn't this where the Epicopals were introduced to pagan practice by their preistess, too? Anyway, 3 cheers to the methodists who are doing what the Episcopals are too "all inclusive" to do!


Art Deco,

Eegads! Now it's "against the law" to excommunicate people? Thanks for pointing out that article ( direct link )

 

[Delmar]

Originally posted by Dave Miller

This analogy doesn't work, because heterosexual people have
a choice to express themselves within the confines of an
exclusive, committed relationship. Homosexual people have
no such choice in the church, their choices are celibacy or sin
in the eyes of the church.

And don't say "they could choose to be hetero," unless you are
willing to say you could "choose to be homo." I know I
couldn't, its not part of who I am.

The enemy is not homosexuality, its promiscuity, in all
relationships.

Dave

No Dave the enemy is behaviour that leads to death! Homosexuality leads to death ! That's why God forbids it!

 

[Crow]

Originally posted by Dave Miller

This analogy doesn't work, because heterosexual people have
a choice to express themselves within the confines of an
exclusive, committed relationship. Homosexual people have
no such choice in the church, their choices are celibacy or sin
in the eyes of the church.

And don't say "they could choose to be hetero," unless you are
willing to say you could "choose to be homo." I know I
couldn't, its not part of who I am.

The enemy is not homosexuality, its promiscuity, in all
relationships.

Dave

God set a standard within which sex is acceptable. He did not guarantee everyone "The right to have sex." or "freedom of sexual expression." That "right" doesn't exist within the Bible.

 

[philosophizer]

Originally posted by Crow

God set a standard within which sex is acceptable. He did not guarantee everyone "The right to have sex." or "freedom of sexual expression." That "right" doesn't exist within the Bible.

"Rights" don't exist naturally, anyway. Freedoms do. Rights are created by societies.

 

[NavyDude]

To quote The Daily Show's Stephen Colbert, "For a story headline titled, 'Lesbian violates book of discipline,' this story isn't nearly as hot as I thought it'd be." :chuckle:

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by Art Deco

It aint over until the fat lady sings...

Or in this case, it's the fag lady.

 

[ShadowMaid]

I can't believe people are so confused as to RESPECT and HONOR a homo!! :madmad:

 

[Ecumenicist]

I heard on the radio the source of the word " fag" as it applies
to homosexual people.

A faggot is a piece or bundle of kindling. Said kindling had been
so often and routinely used by good Christians to burn homosexual
people alive at the stake, that the name has "stuck" with
homosexual people. Use of the term convicts perpetrators
of evil against humanity, and therefore against God.

Dave

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Dave Miller

This analogy doesn't work, because heterosexual people have
a choice to express themselves within the confines of an
exclusive, committed relationship. Homosexual people have
no such choice in the church, their choices are celibacy or sin
in the eyes of the church.

And don't say "they could choose to be hetero," unless you are
willing to say you could "choose to be homo." I know I
couldn't, its not part of who I am.

The enemy is not homosexuality, its promiscuity, in all
relationships.

Dave

They can choose to submit to Christ. Homosexuality is not normal. People are not born that way, and it is not something they have no choice in. They have a choice. They can choose Christ, and He will turn them from their wicked ways. And the reason I can't choose to be a faggot is not because of who I am, but because of who I am in Christ. Homosexuality is contrary to who I am in Christ. If it were not for Christ, I could be promiscuous, and I could be bisexual, for all I know. Heterosexuality is how we were all created to be. It is not contrary to who anyone is in Christ.

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Dave Miller

I heard on the radio the source of the word " fag" as it applies
to homosexual people.

A faggot is a piece or bundle of kindling. Said kindling had been
so often and routinely used by good Christians to burn homosexual
people alive at the stake, that the name has "stuck" with
homosexual people. Use of the term convicts perpetrators
of evil against humanity, and therefore against God.

Dave

You are a fag.

 

[Ecumenicist]

Originally posted by lighthouse

You are a fag.

I'm sorry that you've had to suffer all that you have, and
that its brought you to this place of intolerance and hatred.

Its not what Christ has in mind for you, and its not
reflective of a Spirit perfected in Christ.

May you find Grace and Peace and forgiveness in Christ,
for yourself and for others who have hurt you (including
myself.)

God Bless,

Dave

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Dave Miller

I'm sorry that you've had to suffer all that you have, and
that its brought you to this place of intolerance and hatred.

Its not what Christ has in mind for you, and its not
reflective of a Spirit perfected in Christ.

May you find Grace and Peace and forgiveness in Christ,
for yourself and for others who have hurt you (including
myself.)

God Bless,

Dave

I have suffered nothing, but your ignorance and defiance of God. Yes, I am intolerant, and that's because some things are stupid. I am not intolerant out of hate. I am intolerant because I love. You are the one who hates, Dave. You hate God, and all of His creation.