ECT Jacobs Trouble.

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hi,

Tribulation comes before great tribulation. 2 Thes. ch 1 and Mat,ch 24.


Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
Gen 32:27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Gen 32:31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.
Gen 32:32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew that shrank.

Jacob pictures the life of the saints, not of the jews.

Believers overcome by stopping their fighting against the angel of God.

In order that the saints are ready to receive Christ when he comes, which is for most the end of their natural lives, they must come to rest in Christ, not just believe a theory about it.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Christ will not return until the self power of His Holy people (saints) is broken.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

We find the condition of Gods saints at His return here---

Psa 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
Psa 18:3 I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.
Psa 18:4 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid.
Psa 18:5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
Psa 18:6 In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.
Psa 18:7 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.
Psa 18:8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
Psa 18:9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.
Psa 18:10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.
Psa 18:11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
Psa 18:12 At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire.
Psa 18:13 The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire.
Psa 18:14 Yea, he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; and he shot out lightnings, and discomfited them.
Psa 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.
Psa 18:16 He sent from above, he took me, he drew me out of many waters.
Psa 18:17 He delivered me from my strong enemy, and from them which hated me: for they were too strong for me.

Read all the Psalm.

LA
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
By saints you are referring to all believers who have received Christ as their savior (just to make sure we're on the same page)?

Yes.

Jacob was a believer, and his troubles were that of the believers troubles, in which the Lord transformed him into a Prince.

All believers experience the same things as did Jacob in becoming Israel.

Until then, men are deceivers by nature.

LA
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Well....you certainly lifted 'Jacob's trouble' out of its Scriptural context, didn't you.

Read all of Jer 30.

I know your mindset.

If you understood then you would be in preparation of being Christs Bride, as Esther was.

However you think it all refers to flesh Jews.

Read Esther.

LA
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
You just want those in Christ to face his wrath as you will.

Tribulation is not Gods Wrath.

Great Tribulation is, but that does not concern Christians who are refined like silver.

Great tribulation is reserved for those who persecute the ones being refined.

2Th 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


LA
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
I know your mindset.

If you understood then you would be in preparation of being Christs Bride, as Esther was.

However you think it all refers to flesh Jews.

Read Esther.

LA

I know your mindset......a redefiner of Scriptural terms.

Est 9:1 Now in the twelfth month, that is, the month Adar, on the thirteenth day of the same, when the king's commandment and his decree drew near to be put in execution, in the day that the enemies of the Jews hoped to have power over them, (though it was turned to the contrary, that the Jews had rule over them that hated them

Est 10:3 For Mordecai the Jew was next unto king Ahasuerus, and great among the Jews, and accepted of the multitude of his brethren, seeking the wealth of his people, and speaking peace to all his seed.
 

achduke

Active member
Tribulation is not Gods Wrath.

Great Tribulation is, but that does not concern Christians who are refined like silver.

Great tribulation is reserved for those who persecute the ones being refined.

2Th 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


LA

Rom 5:3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;

Rom 12:12 rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer;

2Co 7:4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my boasting on your behalf. I am filled with comfort. I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.

Rev 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Rom 5:3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;

Rom 12:12 rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer;

2Co 7:4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my boasting on your behalf. I am filled with comfort. I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.

Rev 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


These who come out of great tribulation are not touched by the great tribulation.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

They washed their robes during tribulation.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.


LA
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I know your mindset......a redefiner of Scriptural terms.

Est 9:1 Now in the twelfth month, that is, the month Adar, on the thirteenth day of the same, when the king's commandment and his decree drew near to be put in execution, in the day that the enemies of the Jews hoped to have power over them, (though it was turned to the contrary, that the Jews had rule over them that hated them

Est 10:3 For Mordecai the Jew was next unto king Ahasuerus, and great among the Jews, and accepted of the multitude of his brethren, seeking the wealth of his people, and speaking peace to all his seed.

The believers were Jews at that time, and the first of the Church were mostly Jews, but became full of Gentiles as well.

There is no distinction between Jew and Gentile in Gods Church.

Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

The book of Ephesians is to the Bride, which you claim not to be a part of.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.




LA
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Tribulation is not Gods Wrath.

Great Tribulation is, but that does not concern Christians who are refined like silver.

Great tribulation is reserved for those who persecute the ones being refined.

2Th 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


LA

And water isn't wet.

Thank you for your comment.


The first part of Jesus discourse on the events leading to His coming,
describes tribulation---

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

The second part of his discourse describes the great tribulation in which time the spiritual children of the saints are gathered following the resurrection of the saints at Christ's appearing as Rev.ch 18 describes--

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

as per--

Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Verse 23 only makes sense when Christ has returned and men do not know where He is, Verse 28 tells us the answer.

LA
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Mt24A is about 1st century Israel. After v29 it is about the worldwide day of judgement. That could have happened right after the DofJ but God obviously decided to extend.

The carcass was Israel in the 1st century and the vultures was contemporary slang for the Roman Eagle, icon of the army. Christ had already declared Israel desolate in Mt 23.
 

OCTOBER23

New member
The Philadelphian Church is KEPT from Wrath and the Great Tribulation

and goes to the Place Prepared by God (JESUS) the New Jerusalem

to be Trained to Rule with JESUS.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the unoccupied place, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should nourish her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
 
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