Gods indictment on the natural human heart of man !

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beloved57,

Jer 17:9 describes the natural mans heart. No exceptions! Did you read and understand the OP ?

Looking at your OP:

Jer 17:9
9 [FONT=&]The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Now understand something the heart here speaks to the mind, will, and affections of a man. Its the hebrew word [/FONT]leb and means:
inner man, mind, will, heart, the inner man, indefinite the soul, comprehending mind, affections and will

Now the Mystery to this Truth is that this describes the heart of all natural men, even if they are religious, moral and upright. We tend to think this describes bank robbers, fornicators and drunkards, and drug dealers and users, which it does, however it includes good moral decent people with excellent high standards.

Now firstly, you have not properly commented on Luke 8:15 that I quoted in Post #12 and this has been also quoted now by “God’s Truth” in Post #19. I may have a different view to “God’s Truth” on this verse, but how do you understand Luke 8:15? Possibly I can agree with you as to the natural man, and maybe I have been a little impatient. Could you describe what is the next step in the process? This may be for a man to move from being a natural man to a person acceptable in God’s sight?

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beloved57]

Greetings again beloved57, Looking at your OP: Now firstly, you have not properly commented on Luke 8:15 that I quoted in Post #12 and this has been also quoted now by “God’s Truth” in Post #19. I may have a different view to “God’s Truth” on this verse, but how do you understand Luke 8:15? Possibly I can agree with you as to the natural man, and maybe I have been a little impatient. Could you describe what is the next step in the process? This may be for a man to move from being a natural man to a person acceptable in God’s sight?

Kind regards
Trevor

Jer 17:9 describes the natural heart of man. Do u want to discuss what that verse says ?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beloved57,

Jer 17:9 describes the natural heart of man. Do u want to discuss what that verse says ?

Yes. You can go first as all my attempts to draw you out have failed so far, and any slight suggestion that I have made has been met with Jeremiah 17:9. I am not sure if it is because you have highlighted "Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else" which to me seems far wide of the mark. I believe in the Gospel of Christ, that is the Gospel of the Kingdom and Name.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beloved57]

trevor

Yes.

Good lets discuss it. Jer 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Now according to this verse the heart of man naturally is what above all things ?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beloved57,

Good lets discuss it. Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Now according to this verse the heart of man naturally is what above all things ?

Deceitful and desperately wicked. Please note that you have added the word "naturally", and although I may agree with your addition, this does not occur in Jeremiah 17:9.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beloved57]

Greetings again beloved57,Deceitful and desperately wicked. Please note that you have added the word "naturally", and although I may agree with your addition, this does not occur in Jeremiah 17:9.

Kind regards
Trevor

Thats how man enters into this world, naturally ! Thats common sense and knowledge. Man first bears the image of the earthy and natural 1 Cor 15:46

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Jer 17:9 speaks of man naturally. If you cant receive that there is no sense in discussing this !

Answer the question without natural, thats fine ! This time be careful how you read the question and answer accordingly thanks !

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beloved57,

Thats how man enters into this world, naturally ! Thats common sense and knowledge. Man first bears the image of the earthy and natural 1 Cor 15:46
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
Jer 17:9 speaks of man naturally. If you cant receive that there is no sense in discussing this !
Answer the question without natural, thats fine ! This time be careful how you read the question and answer accordingly thanks !

I was careful to read your question and answered it, but I also commented that your question added an interpretation from elsewhere, and you have now added some of the reasons why you used the word “naturally” or “natural”. I assess Jeremiah 17:9 from its context, Jeremiah’s own meditation on Psalm 1 and also his environment where the nation of Judah was about to be cast out of their land because of most of their unrepentant iniquity. But your question includes the word “naturally” as per the following:

Good lets discuss it. Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Now according to this verse the heart of man naturally is what above all things ?

When I introduced another aspect of the heart of man, especially David from Psalm 1 you objected. Also you objected when I quoted Luke 8:15, and yet I cannot understand why you objected. If you want to keep this discussion on Jeremiah 17:9 according to your straight-jacket that’s fine, but possibly you should allow a discussion not a dictation or one-way questions and answers based upon your narrow interpretations, despite your claim that this is common sense and knowledge. A text without a context is a pretext.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beloved57]

Greetings again beloved57, I was careful to read your question and answered it, but I also commented that your question added an interpretation from elsewhere, and you have now added some of the reasons why you used the word “naturally” or “natural”. I assess Jeremiah 17:9 from its context, Jeremiah’s own meditation on Psalm 1 and also his environment where the nation of Judah was about to be cast out of their land because of most of their unrepentant iniquity. But your question includes the word “naturally” as per the following: When I introduced another aspect of the heart of man, especially David from Psalm 1 you objected. Also you objected when I quoted Luke 8:15, and yet I cannot understand why you objected. If you want to keep this discussion on Jeremiah 17:9 according to your straight-jacket that’s fine, but possibly you should allow a discussion not a dictation or one-way questions and answers based upon your narrow interpretations, despite your claim that this is common sense and knowledge. A text without a context is a pretext.

Kind regards
Trevor

Just forget it, i have no interest in continuing this discussion with you. The heart of man naturally is described by God in Jer 17:9 whether you agree or not. The heart of man by nature is deceitful above all things. The word deceitful means:
Crooked,
insidious

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beloved57,

Just forget it, i have no interest in continuing this discussion with you. The heart of man naturally is described by God in Jer 17:9 whether you agree or not. The heart of man by nature is deceitful above all things. The word deceitful means: Crooked,insidious

That's fine with me, as we do not seem to be making any progress. Before coming online I was going to suggest that you also consider Jeremiah 17:10 as this seems to be strongly tied with Jeremiah 17:9, but I will now leave this up to you. The question that I was going to ask is whether this verse is also speaking of the natural man exclusively, or includes some who have developed beyond the natural man and could be amongst the faithful.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jonahdog]

Jer 17:9

9 [FONT=&]The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Now understand something the heart here speaks to the mind, will, and affections of a man. Its the hebrew word [/FONT]leb and means:

inner man, mind, will, heart, the inner man, indefinite the soul, comprehending mind, affections and will

Now the Mystery to this Truth is that this describes the heart of all natural men, even if they are religious, moral and upright. We tend to think this describes bank robbers, fornicators and drunkards, and drug dealers and users, which it does, however it includes good moral decent people with excellent high standards.

What a depressing bit of theology.

 

[beloved57]

Greetings again beloved57,That's fine with me, as we do not seem to be making any progress. Before coming online I was going to suggest that you also consider Jeremiah 17:10 as this seems to be strongly tied with Jeremiah 17:9, but I will now leave this up to you. The question that I was going to ask is whether this verse is also speaking of the natural man exclusively, or includes some who have developed beyond the natural man and could be amongst the faithful.

Kind regards
Trevor

See Ya take care !

 

[beloved57]

What a depressing bit of theology.

Hi, do you want to discuss the verse Jer 17:9 and what it states about the heart of man ? This is about mans heart by nature !

 

[beloved57]

In addition to the heart of man by nature being deceitful, its said by God to be desperately wicked. Jer 17:9

⁹ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

In the hebrew it would be incurably wicked ! The natural heart of man cant be cured of its native wickedness God says.

These english translations capture the hebrew word well:

[FONT=&quot]The heart is more deceitful than anything else, and incurable—who can understand it? CSB

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The heart is deceitful above all things, and incurable; who can know it? Darby

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“·More than anything else [/FONT][FONT=&quot][T Above all things][/FONT][FONT=&quot], ·a person’s mind is evil [/FONT][FONT=&quot][T the heart is deceitful; L the heart is devious/crooked][/FONT][FONT=&quot]and ·cannot be healed [/FONT][FONT=&quot][T desperately wicked; L it is perverse/sick][/FONT][FONT=&quot]. Who can ·understand [/FONT][FONT=&quot][know][/FONT][FONT=&quot] it? EXB

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Crooked [is] the heart above all things, And it [is] incurable -- who doth know it? YLT
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“·More than anything else [/FONT][FONT=&quot][T Above all things][/FONT][FONT=&quot], ·a person’s mind is evil [/FONT][FONT=&quot][T the heart is deceitful; L the heart is devious/crooked][/FONT][FONT=&quot]and ·cannot be healed [/FONT][FONT=&quot][T desperately wicked; L it is perverse/sick][/FONT][FONT=&quot]. Who can ·understand [/FONT][FONT=&quot][know][/FONT][FONT=&quot] it?[/FONT]

 

[beloved57]

The natural mans mind, while in a state of nature, is enmity against God Rom 8:7

⁷ Because the carnal mi​nd is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

You know Adam and Eve in the very beginning were carnal minded and not subject to the Law of God, for the results of the temptation by satan proved it.

 

[Nanja]

The natural mans mind, while in a state of nature, is enmity against God Rom 8:7

⁷ Because the carnal mi​nd is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

You know Adam and Eve in the very beginning were carnal minded and not subject to the Law of God, for the results of the temptation by satan proved it.

Correct, they being in the flesh / carnal were spiritually unable to obey God's Law / Commandment Gen. 3:3 which is spiritual Rom. 7:14; 8:8.