ECT Given the nominal but accepted understanding of these two verses:

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"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" Romans 3:10 (KJV)

And:

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV)

How would you reconcile those 2 passages with these 2?

"Stand in awe, and sin not:
Commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.
Offer the sacrifices of righteousness,
And put your trust in the LORD" Psalm 4:4–5 (KJV)

What I find interesting is that they all were written by David, a man after God's own Heart, even this with regards to himself:

"The LORD shall judge the people:
Judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness,
And according to mine integrity that is in me." Psalm 7:8 (KJV )
 
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nikolai_42

nikolai_42

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Cross Reference said:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" Romans 3:10 (KJV)

And:

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV)

How would you reconcile those 2 passages with these 2?

"Stand in awe, and sin not:
Commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.
Offer the sacrifices of righteousness,
And put your trust in the LORD" Psalm 4:4–5 (KJV)

What I find interesting is that they all were written by David, a man after God's own Heart, even this from himself:

"The LORD shall judge the people:
Judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness,
And according to mine integrity that is in me." Psalm 7:8 (KJV )
Click to expand...

Do you believe David was (ever) dead in trespasses and sins?
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Cross Reference said:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" Romans 3:10 (KJV)

And:

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV)

How would you reconcile those 2 passages with these 2?

"Stand in awe, and sin not:
Commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.
Offer the sacrifices of righteousness,
And put your trust in the LORD" Psalm 4:4–5 (KJV)

What I find interesting is that they all were written by David, a man after God's own Heart, even this with regards to himself:

"The LORD shall judge the people:
Judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness,
And according to mine integrity that is in me." Psalm 7:8 (KJV )
Click to expand...

what i find interesting, is that Psalms and Proverbs are not testimony as to what David or Solomon DID. only 73 Psalms are written by David - 51 are anonymous - Proverbs is a book of wise sayings written MOSTLY by Solomon, for teaching people how to live godly lives through the repetition of wise thoughts

much truth and wisdom according to the scriptures abound in Psalms and Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Song of Songs also. these books are not what happens or happened; but what should be -

btw, David was a man AFTER God's own heart; NOT WITH God's Own Heart - David is a sinner like every man who ever lived; save Jesus - :patrol:



i should clarify - Psalms and Proverbs are things that WILL happen, have happened, and should happen - but not necessarily at the time they are written -
 
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patrick jane said:
what i find interesting, is that Psalms and Proverbs are not testimony as to what David or Solomon DID. only 73 Psalms are written by David - 51 are anonymous - Proverbs is a book of wise sayings written MOSTLY by Solomon, for teaching people how to live godly lives through the repetition of wise thoughts

much truth and wisdom according to the scriptures abound in Psalms and Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Song of Songs also. these books are not what happens or happened; but what should be -

btw, David was a man AFTER God's own heart; NOT WITH God's Own Heart - David is a sinner like every man who ever lived; save Jesus - :patrol:



i should clarify - Psalms and Proverbs are things that WILL happen, have happened, and should happen - but not necessarily at the time they are written -
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That is all your problem to sort through, not mine.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

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Unless you are missing something that would give you better understanding ___ like, context.
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The only sticking point that I can see that would require the verses in the OP to clash with each other is that of "whose righteousness" is at issue. Or if this is a case of David pleading with God for justice and in the middle of his complaint finds himself led by the Spirit of God to a place of understanding (Psalm 73:17 comes to mind as an example of this), then his statements may need to be taken as they were delivered - a cry to God more than a didactic teaching. Justice is something everyone born of the Spirit of God cries out for :

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Revelation 6:9-10

One will not "sigh and cry" over iniquity (e.g. Ezekiel 9:4) unless they are of God.
 
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nikolai_42 said:
The only sticking point that I can see that would require the verses in the OP to clash with each other is that of "whose righteousness" is at issue. Or if this is a case of David pleading with God for justice and in the middle of his complaint finds himself led by the Spirit of God to a place of understanding (Psalm 73:17 comes to mind as an example of this), then his statements may need to be taken as they were delivered - a cry to God more than a didactic teaching. Justice is something everyone born of the Spirit of God cries out for :

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Revelation 6:9-10

One will not "sigh and cry" over iniquity (e.g. Ezekiel 9:4) unless they are of God.
Click to expand...


Face value: That all is so convoluted that it makes no sense whatsoever with regards to the OP but rather an attempt to explain it away using a lot of meaningless/irrelevant thought processes.... Sorry, for me, it ain't there. Stay with the verses used. It's all there.
 
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Just a little more:

"Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just:
For the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
My defence is of God,
Which saveth the upright in heart.
God judgeth the righteous,
And God is angry with the wicked every day." Psalm 7:9–11 (KJV)
 
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Well, it seems like there might be a problem for most in sorting out their traditional understanding they have assumed to be the only understanding in the matter of man ever having the capacity to do what is right in the sight of God. Better hurry. Time is awasting. God is about to finalize His program __ set in Himself.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
Face value: That all is so convoluted that it makes no sense whatsoever with regards to the OP but rather an attempt to explain it away using a lot of meaningless/irrelevant thought processes.... Sorry, for me, it ain't there. Stay with the verses used. It's all there.
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If David was dead in trespasses and sins, then whose righteousness was "his" righteousness? And the other point was that this is a Psalm - David is pouring out his heart to the Lord. And while there are prophetic psalms, there are also psalms (like Psalm 73) in which David begins to understand something even as he is in the middle of crying out to God (whether being unknowingly prophetic or not). So do we take these psalms (in full) as teaching in the same way the prophets and the apostles taught? David is not claiming his own righteousness here - not as one after God's own heart he can't be. Unless of course, Jesus is just the other way to God...

And the artificial limitation of which verses to use...isn't that contrary to your wanting to look at context (your second followup post)? Scripture is a whole.
 
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nikolai_42 said:
If David was dead in trespasses and sins, then whose righteousness was "his" righteousness?
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David said it was, his.

And the other point was that this is a Psalm - David is pouring out his heart to the Lord. And while there are prophetic psalms, there are also psalms (like Psalm 73) in which David begins to understand something even as he is in the middle of crying out to God (whether being unknowingly prophetic or not). So do we take these psalms (in full) as teaching in the same way the prophets and the apostles taught? David is not claiming his own righteousness here - not as one after God's own heart he can't be. Unless of course, Jesus is just the other way to God...
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Pouring out his heart, you say? How can that be if David, was dead in his "trespasses and sins" which, in your estimation, disqualifies him from having the capacity to address God at all. How do you even BEGIN to understand that he did do just that?

And the artificial limitation of which verses to use...isn't that contrary to your wanting to look at context (your second followup post)?Scripture is a whole.
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No. Some scripture is stand alone scripture and easily recognizable by the insight given. That is the why of understanding context which you use it to explain away other context which, I don't. It is dishonest. If there is lack of understanding, it isn't the fault of God, the writer or the scripture presented. It is ours.

Know that I understand this:

Before the cross, man's righteousness found favor with God. The is an absolute. It hasn't changed because of the cross. The difference is that upon his death before the cross, the righteousness man, could not be 'transfigured' him into the Presence of God. He died with but the promise of redemption and held in the bosom of Abraham; the abode of the "living" dead..

Since the cross, that same righteous man, favored by God, upon his death, can now enter directly into the Presence of God, all made possible by the Righteousness of Jesus Christ that by His death, all righteous men, upon their death, are made "Gloriously Righteous".

Do you really need scripture any of that?
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