Eternal suffering is not Literal

kjw47

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All who know the true God knows allready he is a God of justice, all his ways are justice( Deut 32:4)= uncorruptable justice scales.He taught all that justice= An eye for an eye= perfect balance on his scales.

Lets apply Gods justice scales to a literal eternal suffering---- On one side-70-100 years of a life of unrepented sin----- On the other side trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years of suffering. See any justice?

The reality the true living God set before all mankind-Deut 30:19= Life or death( both will be eternal)

Eternal suffering symbolism = As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those not allowed in miss each new day, miss Gods loveeach new day-it never ends.---Likenedto be an eternal suffering.
Only a sadist would create such a place one who has no justice. Only blind guides teach it as literal.
 

JudgeRightly

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All who know the true God knows already he is a God of justice, all his ways are justice( Deut 32:4)= uncorruptable justice scales.He taught all that justice= An eye for an eye= perfect balance on his scales.

Lets apply Gods justice scales to a literal eternal suffering---- On one side-70-100 years of a life of unrepented sin----- On the other side trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years of suffering. See any justice?

The reality the true living God set before all mankind-Deut 30:19= Life or death( both will be eternal)

Eternal suffering symbolism = As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those not allowed in miss each new day, miss Gods loveeach new day-it never ends.---Likenedto be an eternal suffering.
Only a sadist would create such a place one who has no justice. Only blind guides teach it as literal.

Well that's a terrible way to look at it...

Here's what will actually happen, that shows God to be just, while also being merciful and loving and good.

Let's say a man sees a woman, and he falls in love with her, but she does not reciprocate his feelings for her. So he grabs her and takes her to his home, pushes her into a room, and then boards up the doors and windows, preventing her from leaving.

Another man sees a woman, and he falls in love with her, but unlike the first woman, she loves him in return. So he grabs her and takes her to his home, but tells her that if she wants to leave, then at any time, she may.

---

@kjw47 which man is a good man, and which man is an evil man?
 

Arthur Brain

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Well that's a terrible way to look at it...

Here's what will actually happen, that shows God to be just, while also being merciful and loving and good.

Let's say a man sees a woman, and he falls in love with her, but she does not reciprocate his feelings for her. So he grabs her and takes her to his home, pushes her into a room, and then boards up the doors and windows, preventing her from leaving.

Another man sees a woman, and he falls in love with her, but unlike the first woman, she loves him in return. So he grabs her and takes her to his home, but tells her that if she wants to leave, then at any time, she may.

---

@kjw47 which man is a good man, and which man is an evil man?
Well, that's a terrible analogy in relation to the OP...

The gist seems to be that love will not force, which is fair enough but that kinda falls apart when people in an eternal suffering paradigm are forced into a state with no escape from it whatever.
 

kjw47

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Well that's a terrible way to look at it...

Here's what will actually happen, that shows God to be just, while also being merciful and loving and good.

Let's say a man sees a woman, and he falls in love with her, but she does not reciprocate his feelings for her. So he grabs her and takes her to his home, pushes her into a room, and then boards up the doors and windows, preventing her from leaving.

Another man sees a woman, and he falls in love with her, but unlike the first woman, she loves him in return. So he grabs her and takes her to his home, but tells her that if she wants to leave, then at any time, she may.

---

@kjw47 which man is a good man, and which man is an evil man?

That has nothing to do with the reality the bible teaches about God and how eternal suffering is not literal.
 

JudgeRightly

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Well, that's a terrible analogy in relation to the OP...

No, it's not.

The gist seems to be that love will not force, which is fair enough

Thank you for conceding the discussion.

but that kinda falls apart when people in an eternal suffering paradigm are forced into a state with no escape from it whatever.

Their escape is to accept Christ as their savior during this life. The cutoff point is their death, as the Bible says, it is appointed for man to die once, and after this the judgement.

God's patience is not infinite. It will run out for those who continue to reject Him
 

Arthur Brain

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No, it's not.



Thank you for conceding the discussion.



Their escape is to accept Christ as their savior during this life. The cutoff point is their death, as the Bible says, it is appointed for man to die once, and after this the judgement.

God's patience is not infinite. It will run out for those who continue to reject Him
Yeah, it was...

Nothing was conceded as your gist backfired with your following as it interminably does with people who promote the doctrine like yourself. God won't force people to do anything but after a certain point He apparently will force them to be in a condition from which there's no escape. Love doesn't do that and your analogy is absolutely ironic in that regard.
 

kjw47

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No, it's not.



Thank you for conceding the discussion.



Their escape is to accept Christ as their savior during this life. The cutoff point is their death, as the Bible says, it is appointed for man to die once, and after this the judgement.

God's patience is not infinite. It will run out for those who continue to reject Him
The lake of fire=the second death.
 

JudgeRightly

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Nothing was conceded

Denying reality isn't healthy, Arty.

God won't force people to do anything

Yes, that's the point.

Those who reject God by the point of their death choose, willingly, to live eternity separate from Him.

but after a certain point He apparently will force them to be in a condition from which there's no escape.

It's not a condition they don't want to be in.

Thus, it's not force.

Love doesn't do that and your analogy is absolutely ironic in that regard.

False.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Denying reality isn't healthy, Arty.



Yes, that's the point.

Those who reject God by the point of their death choose, willingly, to live eternity separate from Him.



It's not a condition they don't want to be in.

Thus, it's not force.



False.
Agreed, but then I'm not the one doing that.

No, they don't and it's equal parts arrogant and simplistic to even posit such a ridiculous notion. Your analogy falls apart all ends up also. If a man truly loves a woman then whether or not those feelings are reciprocated he wouldn't act like a psychopath regardless. If she feels the same way then great, if not the man would respect that. With your analogy, the woman who doesn't love back is free up to a certain point and then flung back into a house with all of the doors and windows boarded up with no escape.

When are you going to realize that people of different beliefs aren't making some conscious choice to end up in a place/realm that they don't even believe in JR no matter how much you might?
 

JudgeRightly

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No, they don't

Yes, they do.

Which is why it's so important to witness to the lost!

and it's equal parts arrogant and simplistic to even posit such a ridiculous notion.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Your analogy falls apart.

No, it doesn't.

If a man truly loves a woman then whether or not those feelings are reciprocated he wouldn't act like a psychopath regardless.

Agreed. If the woman didn't love the man, and he wasn't unhealthy, then he would allow the woman to permanently leave Him.

If she feels the same way then great, if not the man would respect that. With your analogy, the woman who doesn't love back is free up to a certain point and then flung back into the house with all of the doors and windows boarded up with no escape.

No. You've got it backwards.

The place the good man sees the woman is earth, this life, the place he brings the woman to is heaven if she wants to be there and loves him, and if she leaves, the place she goes to is hell.

When are you going to realize that people of different beliefs aren't making some conscious choice to end up in a place/realm that they don't even believe in JR no matter how much you might?

When are you going to realize that God can know the heart of each person, and that you cannot? That despite your claims to the contrary, every human being is born with a knowledge of their Creator, even if later in life they sear their conscience to believe that there is no God, and that the heavens declare the glory of God, and the earth His handiwork, that since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man-and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Go read Romans 1-2, Arty.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Yes, they do.

Which is why it's so important to witness to the lost!



Saying it doesn't make it so.



No, it doesn't.



Agreed. If the woman didn't love the man, and he wasn't unhealthy, then he would allow the woman to permanently leave Him.



No. You've got it backwards.

The place the good man sees the woman is earth, this life, the place he brings the woman to is heaven if she wants to be there and loves him, and if she leaves, the place she goes to is hell.



When are you going to realize that God can know the heart of each person, and that you cannot? That despite your claims to the contrary, every human being is born with a knowledge of their Creator, even if later in life they sear their conscience to believe that there is no God, and that the heavens declare the glory of God, and the earth His handiwork, that since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man-and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Go read Romans 1-2, Arty.
If you were correct - which you aren't - then there'd be no such thing as atheists/agnostics/those of different beliefs and yet there are. So no, they are not "willingly" choosing to 'live' in an eternity of separation. That is a ridiculous posit and one born of arrogance and also ignorance.

Or the man could remain friends with the woman and still have a close, platonic relationship. Your analogy was about a man falling in love with a woman, not about some amended stuff about him taking her to Heaven if she chose to be with him and whatnot. You need to revise it completely. If the man truly loved the woman he wouldn't see her cast to 'hell' of any description, he'd support her being happy with someone else.

When are you going to realize that you aren't the judge of people's hearts? Typical legalese speak and go read Galatians - fruits of the spirit.
 

JudgeRightly

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If you were correct - which you aren't - then there'd be no such thing as atheists/agnostics/those of different beliefs and yet there are. So no, they are not "willingly" choosing to 'live' in an eternity of separation. That is a ridiculous posit and one born of arrogance and also ignorance.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Or the man could remain friends with the woman and still have a close, platonic relationship.

Not part of the analogy.

Your analogy was about a man falling in love with a woman, not about some amended stuff about him taking her to Heaven if she chose to be with him and whatnot.

I was telling you what the parts of the analogy meant, Arty. That's not revising it. That's called explaining it.

You need to revise it completely.

False.

If the man truly loved the woman he wouldn't see her cast to 'hell' of any description, he'd support her being happy with someone else.

Yes, that is exactly what God sending the unbeliever to hell is. "Supporting them being happy living without Him for eternity."

When are you going to realize that you aren't the judge of people's hearts?

I was quoting King David, and quoting Paul. I daresay what they said was true.

Typical legalese speak and go read Galatians - fruits of the spirit.

What I said comes directly from scripture, Arty. Galatians agrees with Romans 1, and Romans with Psalm 19.

That's why I said go read Romans 1-2.
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
... If a man truly loves a woman then whether or not those feelings are reciprocated he wouldn't act like a psychopath regardless. If she feels the same way then great, if not the man would respect that. With your analogy, the woman who doesn't love back is free up to a certain point and then flung back into a house with all of the doors and windows boarded up with no escape. ...
Catholicism teaches that punishment is in sin itself. When we sin we sign up for its punishment. It isn't God Who punishes us but sin itself punishes us. Eternal salvation is from sin's eternal punishment.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Saying it doesn't make it so.



Not part of the analogy.



I was telling you what the parts of the analogy meant, Arty. That's not revising it. That's called explaining it.



False.



Yes, that is exactly what God sending the unbeliever to hell is. "Supporting them being happy living without Him for eternity."



I was quoting King David, and quoting Paul. I daresay what they said was true.



What I said comes directly from scripture, Arty. Galatians agrees with Romans 1, and Romans with Psalm 19.

That's why I said go read Romans 1-2.
Repeating your usual mantra of soundbites doesn't make anything so either.

If you're going to concoct some sort of analogy up then you really do need to come up with a better one but that's up to you. Love doesn't do anything as you say or imply. Out of curiosity, what is your definition or understanding of 'hell'? Cos for the most part it's apparently impossible in fundamentalist circles for anyone in there to be "happy" at all.

Read Corinthians where it comes to love. Nothing else really needs to be said.
 
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