Echad
- Thread starter Jacob
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ttruscott
Well-known member
And what does one mean in Gen 2: 24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.??
One is a number. Not singularity or unity or plurality. Have you ever heard of united as one? A nation is obviously different from the two who make up a marriage, the man and his wife. Did Jesus and Moses the Torah the TaNaK and Matthew through Revelation promote one man and one woman? Because multiple wives is different from if a woman has two husbands.
ttruscott
Well-known member
Nice non-answer in theo-babble. What does one in Gen 2:24 mean? ONE FLESH....what is it??
I can tell that you do not know. It does not mean united in one flesh. I do not know what theo is or what you are saying.
I am not married. I have never been united with a woman if that idea or concept is even possible. What exactly are you asking that my answer did not suffice?
Ever heard of united in spirit intent on one purpose?
ttruscott
Well-known member
The phrase is not mine but GOD's: lə·ḇā·śār לְבָשָׂ֥ר flesh ’e·ḥāḏ אֶחָֽד one that is, one flesh in Genesis 2:24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they BECAME ONE FLESH.
You decided to lecture us on the meaning of ONE, `echad, so I an asking what `echad means in this phrase... What is not to understand?
Of course I have and I know what that means but how does the word united in united in one purpose reflect upon the word in the phrase become one flesh, especially in the light of your pronouncement of post 3 that "One is a number. Not singularity or unity or plurality." unity is not the issue at all?
Shalom.
Today is Shlishli (Third) the Third Day of the Week, the Third Month the Fifteenth Day of the Month. It is Yom, Day.
I have done no such thing. The need of a married couple is not the same as that of a nation. Divided we fall, united we stand.
That two would be united in marriage or holy matrimony is another discussion.
But you asked about the scripture. You want to know what is not to understand, and I don't know what it might be. I am not making things up, just painting the backdrop. If you are married, you know from experience. Me on the other hand I just understand the words.
Shalom.
Jacob
One, I doubt you began this thread as a lecture, but more as your sharing what you had just learned.
Two, it is interesting that you used the word "know" for in Scripture one use of the word "know" is in the sense of sexual intimacy.
Off the top of my head, some examples (I'm sure others will come to mind after I post this post - for there are others)...
Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Genesis 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
Matthew 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
While, the real issue in the Genesis 2 passages is that of their becoming one flesh in spirit.
Which is what the beautiful words "my wife" and "my husband" refer to - not to "my property" but to "my part of me."
Which speaks of that wondrous mystery is "husband and wife."
That kaliedescope of ever endless colors and discovery that they are meant to result in to one another, as one...
Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
In the case of marriage, there is a oneness between them there - in every aspect of their marriage there.
Which is what marriage is - the joining together of normally separate things, into one.
As in the phrase "a marriage of ideas."
Some other examples...
1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power. 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Ephesians 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
Which is why...
2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Rom. 5:6-8.
Nothing of the sort.
Echad means one. Rishon means first. For the six days of creation the first is echad. Rishon is for the first day of the week. Sometimes we just say echad. And from the Shema which I recite daily we have that God, Yahveh, is One.
ttruscott
Well-known member
Your backdrop fails.
Yachid vs. Echad
Intro from http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-oneness-unity-yachid-vs-echad.htm - too long to repeat here:
I will just leave this right here....
I am a Torah Observant Jew who believes that Yeshua is the Messiah.
No backdrop painted for you, something that you do not accept. I do not accept the doctrine of the Trinity, even as a former Christian. Obey God's Commands, His Commandments.
That's it?
That's all you have as the basis of your argument?
You saying that you do not accept the Trinity doctrine?
So just because you say so, well, that's that?
That's your argument, hunh?
In this, you are no better than others on here - who hold fast to their error no matter what, and won't even bother to look at the information in a link for a multitude of simply narrow minded reasons on there part.
You're consistently amusing; I'll give ya that much.
:chuckle:
Rom. 5:6-8.
Today is Revi'i (Fourth) the Third Month the Sixteenth Day. It is Yom, Day.
You have to hold fast to something for it to be possible that you hold fast to error.
As for me I was a Christian without the Trinity, and had to think and make decisions about God's Commands, His Commandments.
Greetings Danoh,
Could you genuinely claim that when Jesus spoke to the Scribe and quoted Deuteronomy 6:4 that he expected the Scribe to recognise that Jesus was part of the Trinity, and do you think that the Scribe went his way believing the Trinity? Please note that on the basis of Deuteronomy 6:4 the Jews are strongly monotheistic and reject the Trinity on that basis.
Mark 12:28-34 (KJV): 28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
Do you believe that the 3000 Jews who believed Peter preaching on the Day of Pentecost, some for the first time as they were gathered from the Roman Empire, that from what they heard him preach, believed the Trinity?
Acts 2:22-24, (KJV): 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Kind regards
Trevor
It is interesting how you jump from Deuteronomy 6:4 to Genesis 2:24, but is Deuteronomy 6:4 actually saying that God is three in one?
Could you genuinely claim that when Jesus spoke to the Scribe and quoted Deuteronomy 6:4 that he expected the Scribe to recognise that Jesus was part of the Trinity, and do you think that the Scribe went his way believing the Trinity? Please note that on the basis of Deuteronomy 6:4 the Jews are strongly monotheistic and reject the Trinity on that basis.
Mark 12:28-34 (KJV): 28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
Do you believe that the 3000 Jews who believed Peter preaching on the Day of Pentecost, some for the first time as they were gathered from the Roman Empire, that from what they heard him preach, believed the Trinity?
Acts 2:22-24, (KJV): 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Kind regards
Trevor