ECT Concrete Proof GD "is dead ___________."

[Danoh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=018l90DJ6rI&app=desktop

 

[turbosixx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=018l90DJ6rI&app=desktop

Here is my question. What proof is there that baptism in Romans 6 is not water? Paul had not been to Rome as of this writing so other men converted these people. It's safe to say those men water baptized them, so how did the Romans know this isn't water?

Also, it's easy to see how water baptism is like death, burial and resurrection. Could someone please explain how so called spiritual baptism is represents a death, burial and resurrection.

I'm going to watch the "what does it mean to be crucified with Christ" video next.

 

[Danoh]

Here is my question. What proof is there that baptism in Romans 6 is not water? Paul had not been to Rome as of this writing so other men converted these people. It's safe to say those men water baptized them, so how did the Romans know this isn't water?

Also, it's easy to see how water baptism is like death, burial and resurrection. Could someone please explain how so called spiritual baptism is represents a death, burial and resurrection.

I'm going to watch the "what does it mean to be crucified with Christ" video next.

Two questions

Did Paul personally know or ever personally work with anyone who lives in Rome back then?

What had been that baptism the Lord had mentioned He being straightened about, until it be accomplished?

Those are typically, actual, Acts 9 Position kinds of questions the various assertions made by the man in all those excellent videos are ever evidencing he had obviously asked.

The very same kinds of questions ever evident in the assertions of the sharpest within actual Acts 9 Dispensationalism throughout the U.S.

You would do well to ask yourself as you watch those great videos "now what types of questions must this indivudual have asked himself as he was studying those things out?"

In fact, you can actually see that was the case - in his every assertion - even as he is spouting his one assertion, or another.

Over time, I have found little I disagree with that kind of an individual within actual, Acts 9 Dispensationalism on, and there are many like him within actual, Acts 9 Dispensationalism.

Focus on their APPROACH, on what questions they must have asked themselves as they were studying what they are now presenting, as indicated by their resulting assertions.

You'll come away with a far much better understanding of where actual Acts 9 Dispensationalism is actually coming from.

Only then, can you allow yourself to conclude you know what exactly you are rebutting.

Acts 17:11, 12.

 

[turbosixx]

Two questions

Did Paul personally know or ever personally work with anyone who lives in Rome back then?

Absolutely.

What had been that baptism the Lord had mentioned He being straightened about, until it be accomplished?

You lost me on this one. Could you please dumb it down?

 

[DAN P]

Absolutely.


You lost me on this one. Could you please dumb it down?

Hi to explain it , for you !!

This verse is found in Luke 12:50 and reads , But I have a BAPTISM to be BAPTIZED with , and how am I STRAITENED till it be accomplished !!

#1 And many call this a DEATH BAPTISM !!

#2 The context of this verse is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and places this verse in the OT !!

#3 , THE WORDS how I AM STRAITENED / SYNECHO ( G4912 ) has many meaning , like :

Of a SRAIT , THAT FORCES A SHIP INTO A NARROW CHANNEL !

To hold fast

Impelled

To hold fast , I believe to the death of the cross !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Absolutely.


You lost me on this one. Could you please dumb it down?

Yeah, I often find my own attempts to sort out one thing out or another might better be served by first dumbing things down a bit some.

In other words, I find myself better off to break things down a bit more, and a bit more, and a bit more - as much as it will end up having had to breakdown each aspect of a thing, to where my understanding of each piece a bit more and on its own, then allows me to see the whole picture.

As in the Lord's Own obvious use of this very Principle, in the following...

Spoiler

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

See that phrase "the things"?

He is taking them through various passages and basically saying "see this thing here; this had been about Me...see this one over here; this is another thing that had been about Me."

He was breaking down The Things That Differ to them.

And as the various passages where that is found being practiced, illustrate - how that is done, is not only via this filetting of a thing into its different aspects via questions about them, but questions meant to clearly identify not only those things that are the same within a thing; but the difference between them - those that only appear to be the same; those that differ; and those that only appear to differ; all towards identifying how each contributes to the whole.

Case in point, my 2nd question to you - 'What had been that baptism the Lord had mentioned He being straightened about, until it be accomplished?'

You replied "You lost me on this one. Could you please dumb it down?"

Consider my answer for future reference.

Actually, you could have dumbed it down yourself.

Kind of along the line I have just outlined. For that is what I do with another's assertion.

'Let's see now, Danoh asked "What had been that baptism the Lord had mentioned He being straightened about, until it be accomplished?"'

'Hmmm, is any of this much that he's mentioned by that, in Scripture anywhere?'

'So, supposedly, "the Lord had mentioned" something about a 'baptism' He had been straightened about, until it be accomplished..."'

'Perhaps some of those words used by this Danoh, there, are used in the Scripture - what if I start with that much?'

In others words, Turbo, this is what I have learned to do "by reaon of use."

Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

In other words, anyone can learn to do as much - through questions...and more questions...

Okay, that out of the way...that is exactly what I would do - the assertion, in this case mine, in the form of a question to you, had been 'What had been that baptism the Lord had mentioned He being straightened about, until it be accomplished?'

I would ask 'okay, is any of that in Scripture? - perhaps if I look for some of that phrasing itself...'

That would lead to a word search of the words 'baptism' and 'straightened' and 'accomplished' - which, together, would eventually lead you to this passage...

Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

'Okay, so, next question - what might that have been about - time to dumb this down just a bit further for myself...'

Which leads to other questions, and so on.

Eventually resulting in this...(in the interest of space, I'll just cite the key passages within the picture they are a part of, and that paint said picture).

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

'Hunh?'

'Fair enough,' I say to myself. 'Okay, I need to start over.'

Now here is an important key I have found repeatedly, see if it rings any bells, sounds familiar to you.

'My time in all that there, in that chapter, breaking its various parts down into each their own picture, and then breaking all that down some more, and then some more...attempting to better identify "of what sort it is" 1 Cor. 3:13, puts me in its context WITH it.

At which point, when enough of that "which every joint supplieth" Eph. 4:16, comes together, just right, they begin to result in "the unity of the faith." Eph. 4:13.

At which point, something like this memory set off happens...

John 2:13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, 2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. 2:17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

In other words, what you HAVE sorted out, begins to set off a memory of other parts of it already stored in the mentality of your soul as a result of other times you have invested in the Word.

This is basically your nervous system's memory management given you in Adam, set off by all the above.

At which point passages like the following come to mind - because they share a relationship with what you have been studying....

Re-call, re-collect, re-member, or bring together once more, the various members or parts of what we had found - that He had mentioned His return, and so on, and had then said something about some sort of a baptism He would first have to undergo, it weighed heavily on Him, and so on, but that this baptism would be before His return.

Notice all this, again...

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

What had He meant by that?

What memory of what other passages of Scripture stored in you through time in the Word does all that cause to arise from your memory and into your awareness of them, now - because they are related?

Behold, the Word of God, doing its marvelous effectual work of answering for itself...

Luke 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

So this here...Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Had been this here...Luke 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Had been about His pending death.

How that He had a baptism to be baptized with, or identified with, or become one with, for every man.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

There are many other sections of passages that point to that being a death baptism He would be baptized with, here is another one...

Luke 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Now, you'll re-call, re-collect, re-member, or bring back together again all the various members or pieces into one picture, of what we had been talking about, to begin with, when I asked you that question about the above baptism mentioned by the Lord - we had been talking about that baptism in Romans 6.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

In me, that sets off a memory of this...

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

And this...

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Which, to begin with, was originated by this...

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Which began this way...

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Which came about through this...

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

That was no water ceremony - THAT was The SPIRIT's doing ALONE, in the very moment the person believed in the Cross.

As in the One unity of all that..

Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

THAT was accomplished "through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Who "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

ALL THAT WAS - IS - a spiritual Baptism, or identification WITH the Lord and INTO HIS death WITH Him by ONE Spirit..

I have laid out some of the method of the proper studying out of these things, I have given examples of it in action, and I have applied it to the subject in question.

YOU will NOW have to do ALL that much to sway at least THIS more or less, Mid-Acts Dispensationalist as to why and or where his study approach is off, and thus, why his conclusions on this issue are off; and what is the right approach; what it looks like in action; and what your approach proves otherwise.

And personally, I welcome that kind of an ever stimulating challenge.

This is not about embarrassing you, or whatever.

Not for me it is not.

The ever insecure, and thus, insincere, will conclude that - don't you allow yourself to be one of those.

For me, these back and forths are ever about a hoped for Proverbs 27:17.

Regrettably, a rarity between supposed Bible students within all walks of life.

Just as often, on here.

But ALL the above, is NOW...the ball now on your side of the court.


By the way, here is another great video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiD7C6KYCd4&app=desktop

Rom. 14:5 towards you; in memory of Rom. 5:6-8, in both our stead.

 

[turbosixx]

Yeah, I often find my own attempts to sort out one thing out or another might better be served by first dumbing things down a bit some.

In other words, I find myself better off to break things down a bit more, and a bit more, and a bit more - as much as it will end up having had to breakdown each aspect of a thing, to where my understanding of each piece a bit more and on its own, then allows me to see the whole picture.

As in the Lord's Own obvious use of this very Principle, in the following...

Spoiler

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

See that phrase "the things"?

He is taking them through various passages and basically saying "see this thing here; this had been about Me...see this one over here; this is another thing that had been about Me."

He was breaking down The Things That Differ to them.

And as the various passages where that is found being practiced, illustrate - how that is done, is not only via this filetting of a thing into its different aspects via questions about them, but questions meant to clearly identify not only those things that are the same within a thing; but the difference between them - those that only appear to be the same; those that differ; and those that only appear to differ; all towards identifying how each contributes to the whole.

Case in point, my 2nd question to you - 'What had been that baptism the Lord had mentioned He being straightened about, until it be accomplished?'

You replied "You lost me on this one. Could you please dumb it down?"

Consider my answer for future reference.

Actually, you could have dumbed it down yourself.

Kind of along the line I have just outlined. For that is what I do with another's assertion.

'Let's see now, Danoh asked "What had been that baptism the Lord had mentioned He being straightened about, until it be accomplished?"'

'Hmmm, is any of this much that he's mentioned by that, in Scripture anywhere?'

'So, supposedly, "the Lord had mentioned" something about a 'baptism' He had been straightened about, until it be accomplished..."'

'Perhaps some of those words used by this Danoh, there, are used in the Scripture - what if I start with that much?'

In others words, Turbo, this is what I have learned to do "by reaon of use."

Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

In other words, anyone can learn to do as much - through questions...and more questions...

Okay, that out of the way...that is exactly what I would do - the assertion, in this case mine, in the form of a question to you, had been 'What had been that baptism the Lord had mentioned He being straightened about, until it be accomplished?'

I would ask 'okay, is any of that in Scripture? - perhaps if I look for some of that phrasing itself...'

That would lead to a word search of the words 'baptism' and 'straightened' and 'accomplished' - which, together, would eventually lead you to this passage...

Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

'Okay, so, next question - what might that have been about - time to dumb this down just a bit further for myself...'

Which leads to other questions, and so on.

Eventually resulting in this...(in the interest of space, I'll just cite the key passages within the picture they are a part of, and that paint said picture).

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

'Hunh?'

'Fair enough,' I say to myself. 'Okay, I need to start over.'

Now here is an important key I have found repeatedly, see if it rings any bells, sounds familiar to you.

'My time in all that there, in that chapter, breaking its various parts down into each their own picture, and then breaking all that down some more, and then some more...attempting to better identify "of what sort it is" 1 Cor. 3:13, puts me in its context WITH it.

At which point, when enough of that "which every joint supplieth" Eph. 4:16, comes together, just right, they begin to result in "the unity of the faith." Eph. 4:13.

At which point, something like this memory set off happens...

John 2:13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, 2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. 2:17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

In other words, what you HAVE sorted out, begins to set off a memory of other parts of it already stored in the mentality of your soul as a result of other times you have invested in the Word.

This is basically your nervous system's memory management given you in Adam, set off by all the above.

At which point passages like the following come to mind - because they share a relationship with what you have been studying....

Re-call, re-collect, re-member, or bring together once more, the various members or parts of what we had found - that He had mentioned His return, and so on, and had then said something about some sort of a baptism He would first have to undergo, it weighed heavily on Him, and so on, but that this baptism would be before His return.

Notice all this, again...

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

What had He meant by that?

What memory of what other passages of Scripture stored in you through time in the Word does all that cause to arise from your memory and into your awareness of them, now - because they are related?

Behold, the Word of God, doing its marvelous effectual work of answering for itself...

Luke 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

So this here...Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Had been this here...Luke 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Had been about His pending death.

How that He had a baptism to be baptized with, or identified with, or become one with, for every man.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

There are many other sections of passages that point to that being a death baptism He would be baptized with, here is another one...

Luke 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Now, you'll re-call, re-collect, re-member, or bring back together again all the various members or pieces into one picture, of what we had been talking about, to begin with, when I asked you that question about the above baptism mentioned by the Lord - we had been talking about that baptism in Romans 6.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

In me, that sets off a memory of this...

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

And this...

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Which, to begin with, was originated by this...

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Which began this way...

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Which came about through this...

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

That was no water ceremony - THAT was The SPIRIT's doing ALONE, in the very moment the person believed in the Cross.

As in the One unity of all that..

Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

THAT was accomplished "through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Who "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

ALL THAT WAS - IS - a spiritual Baptism, or identification WITH the Lord and INTO HIS death WITH Him by ONE Spirit..

I have laid out some of the method of the proper studying out of these things, I have given examples of it in action, and I have applied it to the subject in question.

YOU will NOW have to do ALL that much to sway at least THIS more or less, Mid-Acts Dispensationalist as to why and or where his study approach is off, and thus, why his conclusions on this issue are off; and what is the right approach; what it looks like in action; and what your approach proves otherwise.

And personally, I welcome that kind of an ever stimulating challenge.

This is not about embarrassing you, or whatever.

Not for me it is not.

The ever insecure, and thus, insincere, will conclude that - don't you allow yourself to be one of those.

For me, these back and forths are ever about a hoped for Proverbs 27:17.

Regrettably, a rarity between supposed Bible students within all walks of life.

Just as often, on here.

But ALL the above, is NOW...the ball now on your side of the court.


By the way, here is another great video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiD7C6KYCd4&app=desktop

Rom. 14:5 towards you; in memory of Rom. 5:6-8, in both our stead.

Thanks for the excellent reply. I am a little embarrassed that I didn't recognize your question was taken from scripture. I thought it was your words and it didn't really make sense the way it sounded. Sorry I didn't pick up on that but thank you so much for the well thought out reply. I will get a counter reply to you shortly.

 

[Danoh]

Thanks for the excellent reply. I am a little embarrassed that I didn't recognize your question was taken from scripture. I thought it was your words and it didn't really make sense the way it sounded. Sorry I didn't pick up on that but thank you so much for the well thought out reply. I will get a counter reply to you shortly.

Don't sweat it.

I go back and forth with various MADs outside of those on here, and at one point or another one of us will find the other having gone by other than the Scripture for a sec, here and there.

At which point, we point it out to one another.

And what I have found is that what matters throughout is that neither side allow their self to end up not only married to a position, but easily prone to concluding that any attempt to point out a flaw in it is right off about some sort of an intended personal affront.

Also, you might want to go through that entire video FIRST.

It is the same basis for looking at all issues from, that I also hold to.

Until you do that much - go through that entire video, taking copious notes as you watch it; you will not have much hope of understanding where I am coming from, and thus, the actual basis of why I hold to the sense of Romans 6's baptism in the way I do.

Here is that link again...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiD7C6KYCd4&app=desktop

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[turbosixx]

Until you do that much - go through that entire video, taking copious notes as you watch it; you will not have much hope of understanding where I am coming from, and thus, the actual basis of why I hold to the sense of Romans 6's baptism in the way I do.

Here is that link again...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiD7C6KYCd4&app=desktop

Rom. 5:6-8.

I sure will, thanks

 

[Danoh]

I sure will, thanks

Fair enough.

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[turbosixx]

Yeah, I often find my own attempts to sort out one thing out or another might better be served by first dumbing things down a bit some.

In other words, I find myself better off to break things down a bit more, and a bit more, and a bit more - as much as it will end up having had to breakdown each aspect of a thing, to where my understanding of each piece a bit more and on its own, then allows me to see the whole picture.

As in the Lord's Own obvious use of this very Principle, in the following...

Spoiler

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

See that phrase "the things"?

He is taking them through various passages and basically saying "see this thing here; this had been about Me...see this one over here; this is another thing that had been about Me."

He was breaking down The Things That Differ to them.

And as the various passages where that is found being practiced, illustrate - how that is done, is not only via this filetting of a thing into its different aspects via questions about them, but questions meant to clearly identify not only those things that are the same within a thing; but the difference between them - those that only appear to be the same; those that differ; and those that only appear to differ; all towards identifying how each contributes to the whole.

Case in point, my 2nd question to you - 'What had been that baptism the Lord had mentioned He being straightened about, until it be accomplished?'

You replied "You lost me on this one. Could you please dumb it down?"

Consider my answer for future reference.

Actually, you could have dumbed it down yourself.

Kind of along the line I have just outlined. For that is what I do with another's assertion.

'Let's see now, Danoh asked "What had been that baptism the Lord had mentioned He being straightened about, until it be accomplished?"'

'Hmmm, is any of this much that he's mentioned by that, in Scripture anywhere?'

'So, supposedly, "the Lord had mentioned" something about a 'baptism' He had been straightened about, until it be accomplished..."'

'Perhaps some of those words used by this Danoh, there, are used in the Scripture - what if I start with that much?'

In others words, Turbo, this is what I have learned to do "by reaon of use."

Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

In other words, anyone can learn to do as much - through questions...and more questions...

Okay, that out of the way...that is exactly what I would do - the assertion, in this case mine, in the form of a question to you, had been 'What had been that baptism the Lord had mentioned He being straightened about, until it be accomplished?'

I would ask 'okay, is any of that in Scripture? - perhaps if I look for some of that phrasing itself...'

That would lead to a word search of the words 'baptism' and 'straightened' and 'accomplished' - which, together, would eventually lead you to this passage...

Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

'Okay, so, next question - what might that have been about - time to dumb this down just a bit further for myself...'

Which leads to other questions, and so on.

Eventually resulting in this...(in the interest of space, I'll just cite the key passages within the picture they are a part of, and that paint said picture).

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

'Hunh?'

'Fair enough,' I say to myself. 'Okay, I need to start over.'

Now here is an important key I have found repeatedly, see if it rings any bells, sounds familiar to you.

'My time in all that there, in that chapter, breaking its various parts down into each their own picture, and then breaking all that down some more, and then some more...attempting to better identify "of what sort it is" 1 Cor. 3:13, puts me in its context WITH it.

At which point, when enough of that "which every joint supplieth" Eph. 4:16, comes together, just right, they begin to result in "the unity of the faith." Eph. 4:13.

At which point, something like this memory set off happens...

John 2:13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, 2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. 2:17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

In other words, what you HAVE sorted out, begins to set off a memory of other parts of it already stored in the mentality of your soul as a result of other times you have invested in the Word.

This is basically your nervous system's memory management given you in Adam, set off by all the above.

At which point passages like the following come to mind - because they share a relationship with what you have been studying....

Re-call, re-collect, re-member, or bring together once more, the various members or parts of what we had found - that He had mentioned His return, and so on, and had then said something about some sort of a baptism He would first have to undergo, it weighed heavily on Him, and so on, but that this baptism would be before His return.

Notice all this, again...

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

What had He meant by that?

What memory of what other passages of Scripture stored in you through time in the Word does all that cause to arise from your memory and into your awareness of them, now - because they are related?

Behold, the Word of God, doing its marvelous effectual work of answering for itself...

Luke 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

So this here...Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Had been this here...Luke 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Had been about His pending death.

How that He had a baptism to be baptized with, or identified with, or become one with, for every man.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

There are many other sections of passages that point to that being a death baptism He would be baptized with, here is another one...

Luke 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Now, you'll re-call, re-collect, re-member, or bring back together again all the various members or pieces into one picture, of what we had been talking about, to begin with, when I asked you that question about the above baptism mentioned by the Lord - we had been talking about that baptism in Romans 6.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

In me, that sets off a memory of this...

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

And this...

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Which, to begin with, was originated by this...

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Which began this way...

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Which came about through this...

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

That was no water ceremony - THAT was The SPIRIT's doing ALONE, in the very moment the person believed in the Cross.

As in the One unity of all that..

Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

THAT was accomplished "through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Who "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

ALL THAT WAS - IS - a spiritual Baptism, or identification WITH the Lord and INTO HIS death WITH Him by ONE Spirit..

I have laid out some of the method of the proper studying out of these things, I have given examples of it in action, and I have applied it to the subject in question.

YOU will NOW have to do ALL that much to sway at least THIS more or less, Mid-Acts Dispensationalist as to why and or where his study approach is off, and thus, why his conclusions on this issue are off; and what is the right approach; what it looks like in action; and what your approach proves otherwise.

And personally, I welcome that kind of an ever stimulating challenge.

This is not about embarrassing you, or whatever.

Not for me it is not.

The ever insecure, and thus, insincere, will conclude that - don't you allow yourself to be one of those.

For me, these back and forths are ever about a hoped for Proverbs 27:17.

Regrettably, a rarity between supposed Bible students within all walks of life.

Just as often, on here.

But ALL the above, is NOW...the ball now on your side of the court.


By the way, here is another great video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiD7C6KYCd4&app=desktop

Rom. 14:5 towards you; in memory of Rom. 5:6-8, in both our stead.

So if I understand you correctly, baptism in Romans 6 takes your mind to Luke 12:50 and from there to other passages and so on. That reasoning takes you away from what Romans 6 is really talking about and one verse that does mentions a baptism is used to jump to other things. There are a lot of passages on baptism that more closely deal with what Paul is talking about. This is where my knowledge of scriptures takes me when I think about baptism in Romans 6.

First I think about the context. Jewish Christians are trying to keep the old law and still be followers of Christ. Paul tells them that Jew and Gentile are in the same boat even though the Jews have God’s law and the Gentiles do not. Jews thought by relying on the fact that they have been God’s people for 2,000 years and having His law for 1,500 years made them better than the Gentiles, 2:17; 3:9. Paul says not so. They are still both under sin.

Paul tells them justification can be found outside the law and circumcision through faith and uses Abraham as the prime example. He says the promise was not through the law, 4:13-14.
He then tells them sin came in through Adam and death reigned till Moses but the law made sin increase which also makes grace increase.

Then we come to chapter 6 where he shows them how they have died to sin through Christ. So the question is what baptism has to do with dying to sin. So that takes me to 1 Cor. 15:3-4. Jesus dying for our sins through his death, burial and resurrection is of FIRST importance. His death, burial and resurrection is the very most important thing. It’s the foundation. His death, burial and resurrection is what makes him our savior. After he offered himself, God gave him all authority in heaven and on earth, Matt. 28:18. Peter says God has made him both Lord and Christ.

His sacrifice is so important to Christianity, that Jesus left us a ceremony to be reminded of it to this day. 1 Cor. 11:26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

So it makes perfect sense that in order to become a follower of Christ, we emulate what he did for us that made it possible for us to die to sin. He says, “make disciples baptizing them in his name”. Before we are baptized we have our sins, we are then buried under water as he was buried in the earth, then we come up out of the water free of sin to a resurrection of life.

That takes me to 1 Pt. 3, where Peter tells us that baptism saves us, not by cleaning the flesh but by an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Christ. That takes me back to Romans 6. It says IF we have become united with him in a death like his certainly we shall also be united with him in a resurrection like his. That take me to Peter saying they were chosen witnesses to announce Jesus' death, burial and resurrection, Acts 10:39-43.

Romans 6 also says being buried with him through baptism into death, as he was raised we will also be raised to newness of life. That makes me think of this, John 3. Nicodemus trusted that his birth made him one of God’s people, which it had up till Jesus. Jesus tells him he must be born again by water and the spirit. When we are baptized we are raised to newness of life.
That is exactly what we see after Jesus' sacrifice, water and the Spirit.
Acts 2: 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Those who were baptized had their souls added by the Spirit.
Acts 2: 41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

There is more I could say but you get the idea.

 

[Danoh]

So if I understand you correctly, baptism in Romans 6 takes your mind to Luke 12:50 and from there to other passages and so on. That reasoning takes you away from what Romans 6 is really talking about and one verse that does mentions a baptism is used to jump to other things. There are a lot of passages on baptism that more closely deal with what Paul is talking about. This is where my knowledge of scriptures takes me when I think about baptism in Romans 6.

First I think about the context. Jewish Christians are trying to keep the old law and still be followers of Christ. Paul tells them that Jew and Gentile are in the same boat even though the Jews have God’s law and the Gentiles do not. Jews thought by relying on the fact that they have been God’s people for 2,000 years and having His law for 1,500 years made them better than the Gentiles, 2:17; 3:9. Paul says not so. They are still both under sin.

Paul tells them justification can be found outside the law and circumcision through faith and uses Abraham as the prime example. He says the promise was not through the law, 4:13-14.
He then tells them sin came in through Adam and death reigned till Moses but the law made sin increase which also makes grace increase.

Then we come to chapter 6 where he shows them how they have died to sin through Christ. So the question is what baptism has to do with dying to sin. So that takes me to 1 Cor. 15:3-4. Jesus dying for our sins through his death, burial and resurrection is of FIRST importance. His death, burial and resurrection is the very most important thing. It’s the foundation. His death, burial and resurrection is what makes him our savior. After he offered himself, God gave him all authority in heaven and on earth, Matt. 28:18. Peter says God has made him both Lord and Christ.

His sacrifice is so important to Christianity, that Jesus left us a ceremony to be reminded of it to this day. 1 Cor. 11:26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

So it makes perfect sense that in order to become a follower of Christ, we emulate what he did for us that made it possible for us to die to sin. He says, “make disciples baptizing them in his name”. Before we are baptized we have our sins, we are then buried under water as he was buried in the earth, then we come up out of the water free of sin to a resurrection of life.

That takes me to 1 Pt. 3, where Peter tells us that baptism saves us, not by cleaning the flesh but by an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Christ. That takes me back to Romans 6. It says IF we have become united with him in a death like his certainly we shall also be united with him in a resurrection like his. That take me to Peter saying they were chosen witnesses to announce Jesus' death, burial and resurrection, Acts 10:39-43.

Romans 6 also says being buried with him through baptism into death, as he was raised we will also be raised to newness of life. That makes me think of this, John 3. Nicodemus trusted that his birth made him one of God’s people, which it had up till Jesus. Jesus tells him he must be born again by water and the spirit. When we are baptized we are raised to newness of life.
That is exactly what we see after Jesus' sacrifice, water and the Spirit.
Acts 2: 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Those who were baptized had their souls added by the Spirit.
Acts 2: 41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

There is more I could say but you get the idea.

:chuckle: I get the idea that passages like Rom. 11:13 and 15:16-21, and others like them, are not in your copy of Romans?

I take it you did not watch that video in its entirety? Let alone, take copious notes?

Nevertheless, Acts 17:11,12.

 

[turbosixx]

:chuckle: I get the idea that passages like Rom. 11:13 and 15:16-21, and others like them, are not in your copy of Romans.

I take it you did not watch that video in its entirety? Let alone, take copious notes?

Nevertheless, Acts 17:11,12.

I just checked. They are there

 

[turbosixx]

:chuckle: I get the idea that passages like Rom. 11:13 and 15:16-21, and others like them, are not in your copy of Romans?

I take it you did not watch that video in its entirety? Let alone, take copious notes?

Nevertheless, Acts 17:11,12.

Since you brought it up. Who are the natural branches?

 

[Danoh]

Since you brought it up. Who are the natural branches?

Go through that video!

:chuckle: :doh:

Rom. 5:6-8.