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  1. Clete

    Progressive Disenchantment Atonement

    I read the scripture like it is written in normal human language that means what it plainly states unless good contextual or grammatical reasons are given to do otherwise. If whatever it is you are doing with it were valid, there'd be no way to falsify any wild-eyed doctrine any crank wanted to...
  2. Clete

    Progressive Disenchantment Atonement

    And any of that is relevant, how? Maybe try to actually respond rather than just copy/pasting stuff from a favorite teacher? Also, you really do need to get it through your skull that I (we) do not care what the "Church Fathers" said. The degree to which your arguments are both rational and...
  3. Clete

    Progressive Disenchantment Atonement

    It is what they all believed and taught! More than that, it is the logically inevitable position given their allegiance to the Aristotelian notion of an immutable God. The point being that what the reformers said isn't authoritative, scripture is! A point that even the Reformers would have at...
  4. Clete

    Honest struggles on God’s omniscience.

    Foreknowledge "causing or approving it" isn't the issue nor the argument. There are several problems with the idea of exhaustive foreknowledge, not the least of which is that the bible does not teach it but your statement has to do with the issue of justice and so let's look at that issue in...
  5. Clete

    Honest struggles on God’s omniscience.

    There was no insult intended. I've just been doing this for decades and already know all of your proof texts. None of them say what you likely believe them to say. If anything, my comments were simply intended as a challenge. Prove me wrong. Quite! Don't take my directness as hostility. So long...
  6. Clete

    Honest struggles on God’s omniscience.

    No, you read that into whatever passages you're thinking of. Biblically, God knows what He wants to know of that information that is knowable. There is not one single syllable of the bible you can find that will contradict that statement. Any and every attempt you make will require you to read...
  7. Clete

    Honest struggles on God’s omniscience.

    Biblical is what it is. It's only heretical for those who worship Aristotle's god.
  8. Clete

    Honest struggles on God’s omniscience.

    Saying it doesn't make it so!
  9. Clete

    Honest struggles on God’s omniscience.

    Brilliant point!
  10. Clete

    Progressive Disenchantment Atonement

    The Reformers also taught that all of our "moral self‑presentation and attempts at uprightness" or lack thereof was all predestined to either happen or not happen before time began and will or will not happen precisely in accordance with God's own sovereign declaration and for no other reason.
  11. Clete

    Honest struggles on God’s omniscience.

    He isn't omniscient! At least not in the classical sense of that word! The real God is not the god of Aristotle. As for causing people to doubt, that's sort of a laughable objection, right? The version of God you believe in is omniscient, right? Does that seem to have prevented people from...
  12. Clete

    Honest struggles on God’s omniscience.

    You! Your AI bot has failed you. Open Theism is not principally about reconciling free will with divine foreknowledge. It's about reading the bible and taking it to mean what it actually states, not what we want to read into it as is exemplified in every single one of the proof-texts it fed to you.
  13. Clete

    Honest struggles on God’s omniscience.

    As are a great many other traditional things. Biblically, God knows everything knowable THAT HE WANTS TO KNOW and is able to find out anything knowable that He doesn't already know. He is not required to be a first person witness to every event that happens and He is fully capable of giving...
  14. Clete

    Honest struggles on God’s omniscience.

    Excellent questions all, but they won't move him an inch. His belief in God is not rational, it is emotional. Indeed, he very likely believes that his willingness to believe the irrational is what it means to be pious and that the act of turning off one's mind is faith itself. No argument can...
  15. Clete

    Honest struggles on God’s omniscience.

    The Omniscience you speak of is unbiblical.
  16. Clete

    Progressive Disenchantment Atonement

    I couldn't care less what Nietzche said that Christianity is. On the contrary. Your post is still there for everyone to read. I quoted it directly. Just what is it that you think the word "nihilism" means? nihilism /nī′ə-lĭz″əm, nē′-/ noun The doctrine that nothing actually exists or that...
  17. Clete

    Progressive Disenchantment Atonement

    Such a paradox does not belong to the biblical worldview but to Aristotle's. The biblical God is not Omni-whatever in the Classical sense of those terms. God's attributes.... Classical Biblical God knows everything, without exception or qualification. God knows what He wants to know of...
  18. Clete

    Progressive Disenchantment Atonement

    First, I'd just like to say that it's nice to find someone new on TOL who appears to have read more than one book in his lifetime and who can articulate himself with some degree of linguistic alacrity. This should prove interesting! Your thesis rests on a key assumption that is quite false...
  19. Clete

    What Would Actually Prove That Someone Is Saved?

    I'm reminded of something from a book I read years ago.... “There being no cause in the creature why Grace should be shown, the creature must be brought off from trying to give cause to God for His Grace… He has been accepted in Christ, who is his standing! He is not ‘on probation.’ As to his...
  20. Clete

    Is Israel the West?

    Way to ignore what I said. Brilliant! Don't flatter yourself. My reasons have to do with accuracy. Jew are NOT Christian - period. Any third grade child can tell you that. You're stupid. Ignorant and stupid. You don't get to redefine widely used words with totally intuitive and common...
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