John 18:5 what was Jesus saying?

[God's Truth]

Well, if Jesus is to be about his Father's business, it should be of no surprise that Jesus is about his Father's business, doing the same things that God does.even as the Father showed to do as Jesus claimed in John 5

So you are admitting God the Father is the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End---and you admit Jesus is too?

Don't you think those names are for one and not two different?

¹⁷ But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

¹⁸ Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

¹⁹ Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

²⁰ For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

²¹ For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

The son did what the Father does and the son obeyed.

God is portrayed as a shepherd in Psalm 23

That is more proof Jesus is God the Father because how many Shepherds do you think there are?

How many Redeemers, and Saviors?

There is only one, so how can the Father be one and Jesus be one unless they are the same person.

Jesus is referred to as a shepherd as well.Thought there is no scripture that I know of that shows that Jesus literally worked as one out in the fields.

Jesus is a Shepherd of sheep, as in people who follow God.

Are you saying that Jesus is God because both God and Jesus are portrayed as shepherds?

That and many other titles that I mentioned, like Redeemer, First and Last, King of kings, etc.

Well if that is the case, then David, is God as well.

You are saying David is the Good Shepherd? You don't know the scriptures say there were bad shepherds for the people of God and thieves?

You don't believe the scriptures about the Old Testament Prophets and others things being types of Jesus?

For instance, Israel is a type of Jesus Christ.

Prophetic:
Exodus 4:22 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,

Prophecy fulfilled:
Matthew 2:15
where he stayed until the death of Herod. This fulfilled what the Lord had spoken through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my Son."

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a youth I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son.

...and many more.

Then Moses and his wife and her family are all God as well.

How do you get they are God? Do they give eternal life?

Is it any surprise that a son working in his father's business would do the same works as his father?
;

Show from the scriptures where anyone is exactly the same as their father.

 

[God's Truth]

God's Truth wrote:
　

Is Jesus the 'Alpha and Omega' in Rev. 22?

John is identified as the speaker in Rev. 22:8. The angel speaks in 9). The angel apparently continues speaking in 10). The angel may be still speaking in 11) --- or it could be John or even someone else (as implied in verse 10 in the NAB, 1970 ed.).

Now is the angel still speaking in 12) or is it God, or is it Jesus, or even John? There is simply no way of telling who the speaker is from any of the early Bible manuscripts. It's entirely a matter of translator's choice. Some translators have decided it is the angel who continues to speak, and they punctuate it accordingly. So the JB, and NJB use quotation marks to show that these are all words spoken by the angel.

However, the RSV, NRSV, NASB, NEB, REB, NKJV, NAB (1991 ed.), ISV, 21st Century King James Version, and TEV show by their use of quotation marks that someone else is now speaking in verse 12. Most Bibles indicate that the person who spoke verse 12 (whether God, angel, Jesus, or John) also spoke verse 13 (“I am Alpha and Omega”).

Now the big question is: Is it clear that the speaker(s) of verses 12 and 13 continues to speak? Some Bibles indicate this. But other highly respected trinitarian translations do not!

The ESV; ISV; LEB; MEV; MOUNCE; NAB (2010 ed.); NASB; NEB; NKJV; NLT; NRSV; REB; RSV; 21st Century King James Version, TEV; and WE show (by quotation marks and indenting/paragraphs) that Rev. 22:14 and 15 are not the words of the speaker of verses 12 and 13 but are John’s words. (The Jerusalem Bible; the NJB; andMoffatt show us that the angel spoke all the words from verse 10 through verse 15.)


Then they show Jesus as a new speaker beginning to speak in verse 16.


So, if you must insist that the person speaking just before verse 16 is the same person who is speaking in verse 16, then, according to the trinitarian ESV; ISV; LEB; MEV; MOUNCE; NAB (2010 ed.); NASB; NEB; NKJV; NLT; NRSV; REB; RSV; 21st Century King James Version, TEV; and WE , you are saying John is Jesus!!! (According to the JB and NJB you would be insisting that the angel is Jesus!)

And, just as the use of "I, John" indicated a new speaker in Revelation 1:9, so does the only other such usage in that same book. Yes, Rev. 22:16 - "I, Jesus" also introduces a new speaker. This means, of course, that the previous statement ("I am the Alpha and Omega") was made by someone else!

Jesus is speaking and he is the Word of God and says he is the First and the Last.

I am not a trinitarian.

However, there are three and the three are one and the same.

Do you believe you are saved and have received the Holy Spirit?

Jesus is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is the Father. The three are one and the same.

 

[God's Truth]

Why try to cram all that into that verse, why not just read the context?

I don't understand what you are saying. The scriptures I gave go together they are not crammed in? What does that mean anyway really?

 

[oatmeal]

So you are admitting God the Father is the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End---and you admit Jesus is too?

Don't you think those names are for one and not two different?



That is more proof Jesus is God the Father because how many Shepherds do you think there are?

How many Redeemers, and Saviors?

There is only one, so how can the Father be one and Jesus be one unless they are the same person.




Jesus is a Shepherd of sheep, as in people who follow God.


That and many other titles that I mentioned, like Redeemer, First and Last, King of kings, etc.



You are saying David is the Good Shepherd? You don't know the scriptures say there were bad shepherds for the people of God and thieves?

You don't believe the scriptures about the Old Testament Prophets and others things being types of Jesus?

For instance, Israel is a type of Jesus Christ.

Prophetic:
Exodus 4:22 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,

Prophecy fulfilled:
Matthew 2:15
where he stayed until the death of Herod. This fulfilled what the Lord had spoken through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my Son."

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a youth I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son.

...and many more.



How do you get they are God? Do they give eternal life?



Show from the scriptures where anyone is exactly the same as their father.

There is only one God and Father of the lord Jesus Christ.

Who expects the offspring of any set of parents to differ completely from their parents?

Do you?

Parents tend to instill their values onto their children.

Likewise with God as the Father of Jesus Christ, Likewise with Mary as the mother of Jesus Christ, Likewise with Joseph, the step father of Jesus.

Jesus was a carpenter like his step father Joseph, that does not meant that Jesus= Joseph, does it?

Mary was a dedicated servant of God, Remarkably, so was her first born. She instilled her values of obedience to God in her first born.

You read about that obedience in Philippians 2

Likewise Jesus took on characteristics of his Father as Jesus learned about his Father from his parent and others who taught and lived the scriptures.

We know that Jesus did not have all this from conception and birth for Luke 2:52

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man."

Note likewise what it says, did God grow in wisdom and stature and favor with himself?

No. Jesus increased in wisdom and stature and favor with God and man, both God and other men are separate entities from Jesus. Jesus was a man but he was of the class of man, not God. God is already all wise, God does not grow in wisdom. Who for that matter is going to increase God's stature? Not me, not you

 

[oatmeal]

I don't understand what you are saying. The scriptures I gave go together they are not crammed in? What does that mean anyway really?

Why not just read the context to find out what Jesus was talking about?

 

[God's Truth]

Why not just read the context to find out what Jesus was talking about?

You aren't Jesus. You think what you post is as if Jesus is posting it?

You are a nut.

 

[God's Truth]

There is only one God and Father of the lord Jesus Christ.

Who expects the offspring of any set of parents to differ completely from their parents?

Do you?

Parents tend to instill their values onto their children.

Likewise with God as the Father of Jesus Christ, Likewise with Mary as the mother of Jesus Christ, Likewise with Joseph, the step father of Jesus.

Jesus was a carpenter like his step father Joseph, that does not meant that Jesus= Joseph, does it?

Mary was a dedicated servant of God, Remarkably, so was her first born. She instilled her values of obedience to God in her first born.

You read about that obedience in Philippians 2

Likewise Jesus took on characteristics of his Father as Jesus learned about his Father from his parent and others who taught and lived the scriptures.

We know that Jesus did not have all this from conception and birth for Luke 2:52

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man."

Note likewise what it says, did God grow in wisdom and stature and favor with himself?

No. Jesus increased in wisdom and stature and favor with God and man, both God and other men are separate entities from Jesus. Jesus was a man but he was of the class of man, not God. God is already all wise, God does not grow in wisdom. Who for that matter is going to increase God's stature? Not me, not you

I'm not reading any of that, or anything else you post.

You think you speaking is as Jesus is speaking.

 

[oatmeal]

So you are admitting God the Father is the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End---and you admit Jesus is too?

Don't you think those names are for one and not two different?



That is more proof Jesus is God the Father because how many Shepherds do you think there are?

How many Redeemers, and Saviors?

There is only one, so how can the Father be one and Jesus be one unless they are the same person.




Jesus is a Shepherd of sheep, as in people who follow God.


That and many other titles that I mentioned, like Redeemer, First and Last, King of kings, etc.



You are saying David is the Good Shepherd? You don't know the scriptures say there were bad shepherds for the people of God and thieves?

You don't believe the scriptures about the Old Testament Prophets and others things being types of Jesus?

For instance, Israel is a type of Jesus Christ.

Prophetic:
Exodus 4:22 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,

Prophecy fulfilled:
Matthew 2:15
where he stayed until the death of Herod. This fulfilled what the Lord had spoken through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my Son."

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a youth I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son.

...and many more.



How do you get they are God? Do they give eternal life?


Show from the scriptures where anyone is exactly the same as their father.

o you are admitting God the Father is the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End---and you admit Jesus is too?

Don't you think those names are for one and not two different?

I don't have any problem with that.

Only those who are trying to prove an erroneous threeology would read into that.

How many people do you know that have the same name or title?

I have known a few Doctors of Medicine, does that mean that all doctors are the same person?

I have known a few Roberts, does that mean all Roberts are the same man?

I think not.

If the Father chooses to give the same name or title that He has to His son, that is His business, not mine.

Are you not named after your parents? Has anyone suggested that you are the same person as your parents?

That is more proof Jesus is God the Father because how many Shepherds do you think there are?

In scripture quite a few. David, who watched over his father's flock.

How about all the shepherds that visited Joseph, Mary and Jesus in the stable?

There may be dozens of shepherd referred to in scripture. How about outside of scripture throughout time? Hundreds of thousands? Miliions?

Are they all God because they are shepherds?

Why not?

How many Redeemers, and Saviors?

Genesis 48:16
The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.


Exodus 6:6
Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:

Exodus 13:13
And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

Exodus 21:8
If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

Exodus 34:20
But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

Leviticus 25:25
If thy brother be waxen poor, and hath sold away some of his possession, and if any of his kin come to redeem it, then shall he redeem that which his brother sold.


How many times did a redeemer redeem someone or some animal according the law? How many people did the redeeming according to the law in these few verses?

Many, many.

Nehemiah 9:27
Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

Evidently, there have been several saviours according to God's word in Nehemiah!

How many chldren did your parents have that were given their name?

 

[God's Truth]

I don't have any problem with that.

Only those who are trying to prove an erroneous threeology would read into that.

You are against saying there are three?

So tell me then, how many are said to live in the saved by ONE SPIRIT?

Read John 14:23.

The saved are given ONE Spirit, but who will live in us?

How many people do you know that have the same name or title?

We are talking about GOD. So how many people do you know who have HIS TITLES?

I have known a few Doctors of Medicine, does that mean that all doctors are the same person?

I have known a few Roberts, does that mean all Roberts are the same man?

I think not.

Why do you keep trying to demean God the Father and Jesus?

If the Father chooses to give the same name or title that He has to His son, that is His business, not mine.

God's business is my business.

Are you not named after your parents? Has anyone suggested that you are the same person as your parents?

No. No way, absolutely not.

In scripture quite a few. David, who watched over his father's flock.

How about all the shepherds that visited Joseph, Mary and Jesus in the stable?

There may be dozens of shepherd referred to in scripture. How about outside of scripture throughout time? Hundreds of thousands? Miliions?

Are they all God because they are shepherds?

Why not?

You really are struggling with this aren't you . You don't see the difference between the GOOD Shepherd for the shepherds? You don't understand plural language?

 

[oatmeal]

You aren't Jesus. You think what you post is as if Jesus is posting it?

You are a nut.

Yes, I know that I am not Jesus.

Did you know that neither are you?

Your insult does nothing to prove your point, as a matter of fact, it demonstrates that you are at a loss to provide evidence for your guesswork

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, I know that I am not Jesus.

Did you know that neither are you?

Your insult does nothing to prove your point, as a matter of fact, it demonstrates that you are at a loss to provide evidence for your guesswork

You think you are equal to Jesus. It is why when I say Jesus was from heaven you try to show with scripture that he was not because you were not, and so on.

You do equate yourself to that of Jesus, and you are badly mistaken.

 

[7djengo7]

Yes that is correct if he was introducing the concept.

Introducing what concept?

​

However in the context of this passage, it is already stated who he is claiming to be.

Try to quote, from the passage, exactly what you're talking about, here.

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Specifically, Jesus of Nazareth.

What word(s) in the text lead you to imagine that, in the text, Jesus "is claiming to be...Jesus of Nazareth"? Of course, Jesus does not say, "I am Jesus of Nazareth". And, since Jesus does not say, "I am he"--does not use the pronoun, "he"--no question arises as to any antecedent of a pronoun. That is, since in the text there's no pronoun, "he", there's no sense in saying something like, "Who or what is the antecedent of the pronoun, 'he'?"

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Are you 7djengo?

No. I am 7djengo7.

​

Are you?

What (if anything) are you asking?

What (if any) point are you trying to make?

In John 18:1-9, is it told us that anybody asked Jesus any question(s)? No, it is not. Nobody asks Jesus, "Are you Jesus of Nazareth?" The only questioning that is reported is done by Jesus, Himself, asking, "Whom seek ye?" We are not told that anything Jesus said was prompted by, or intended to answer, a question.

 

[7djengo7]

You claim that all the Bible versions/translations are wrong for putting a ‘he’ at the end of ‘I am’.

In John 18:5, to put a pronoun, 'he', after 'I am', is not translation, so it is wrong to claim that putting a pronoun, 'he', after 'I am', in John 18:5, is translation. Insofar as any "Bible version/translation" puts a pronoun, 'he', after 'I am', that "Bible version/translation" is wrong, and is failing to be a translation.

​

The word ‘he’ is in those Bibles, which ARE TRANSLATIONS/VERSIONS.

No translation occurs in putting the pronoun, 'he', after John's phrase, "I am", in John 18:5.

​

Those Bibles are called translations and ALL OF THEM say 'he' at the end. ALL OF THEM ARE WRONG ACCORDING TO YOU.

Whoever adds the pronoun, 'he', to John's phrase, "I am", is indeed wrong to do so, and, in doing so, is not engaging in translation of what John wrote.

​

You think you have knowledge to give us God’s Truth and rewrite the Bible.

"Rewrite the Bible"? Meaningless phrase.

​

Write your own Bible version/translation then.

I'll stick with the Bible, thank you. You can worship all your "Bible versions/translations" if you like.

​

You are so popular?

Yes.

​

You don’t even recognize the English Bibles as being scriptures.

What (if anything) do you imagine you mean by this?

​

What I gave you was scripture.

What you gave me was the addition of non-Scripture to Scripture. John 18:5 has the phrase, "I am", whereas you gave me a phrase that John 18:5 does not have: "I am he".

​

No one has to learn Greek to know God’s Truth.

But one needs to learn English?

​

You sin by arguing about words that don’t make a difference.

You claim that the phrase, "I am he", is Scripture, and that the word, "he", therein, is Scripture, and then you tell me that the word "he", therein, does not "make a difference". Hilarious! You are telling me that something you consider to be Scripture does not make a difference.

​

2 Timothy 2:14 Keep reminding God's people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen

You just got done telling me that the pronoun, 'he', does not "make a difference". Thanks, then, for your admission, here, that your attempt to prop up the addition of this non-Scripture pronoun to the Scripture phrase, "I am", in John 18:5, is of no value. You should cease and desist, immediately, from your admitted quarreling about the word, 'he', hypocrite.

 

[God's Truth]

In John 18:5, to put a pronoun, 'he', after 'I am', is not translation, so it is wrong to claim that putting a pronoun, 'he', after 'I am', in John 18:5, is translation. Insofar as any "Bible version/translation" puts a pronoun, 'he', after 'I am', that "Bible version/translation" is wrong, and is failing to be a translation.

No translation occurs in putting the pronoun, 'he', after John's phrase, "I am", in John 18:5.

Whoever adds the pronoun, 'he', to John's phrase, "I am", is indeed wrong to do so, and, in doing so, is not engaging in translation of what John wrote.

"Rewrite the Bible"? Meaningless phrase.

I'll stick with the Bible, thank you. You can worship all your "Bible versions/translations" if you like.

Yes.

What (if anything) do you imagine you mean by this?

What you gave me was the addition of non-Scripture to Scripture. John 18:5 has the phrase, "I am", whereas you gave me a phrase that John 18:5 does not have: "I am he".

But one needs to learn English?

You claim that the phrase, "I am he", is Scripture, and that the word, "he", therein, is Scripture, and then you tell me that the word "he", therein, does not "make a difference". Hilarious! You are telling me that something you consider to be Scripture does not make a difference.

You just got done telling me that the pronoun, 'he', does not "make a difference". Thanks, then, for your admission, here, that your attempt to prop up the addition of this non-Scripture pronoun to the Scripture phrase, "I am", in John 18:5, is of no value. You should cease and desist, immediately, from your admitted quarreling about the word, 'he', hypocrite.


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Every Bible translation/version has the word 'he' at the end.

It doesn't change anything.​

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[oatmeal]

You think you are equal to Jesus. It is why when I say Jesus was from heaven you try to show with scripture that he was not because you were not, and so on.

You do equate yourself to that of Jesus, and you are badly mistaken.

Yes, scripture tells me that not only can I do the same works as Jesus Christ, but greater works.

Not only does scripture say that, but that is a direct quote of Jesus Christ,

So what is your problem with that?

You do equate yourself to that of Jesus, and you are badly mistaken

Are you telling me that Jesus is badly mistaken?

Jesus Christ himself is the one equating believers with himself!

John 14:12

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

 

[oatmeal]

Introducing what concept?

Try to quote, from the passage, exactly what you're talking about, here.

What word(s) in the text lead you to imagine that, in the text, Jesus "is claiming to be...Jesus of Nazareth"? Of course, Jesus does not say, "I am Jesus of Nazareth". And, since Jesus does not say, "I am he"--does not use the pronoun, "he"--no question arises as to any antecedent of a pronoun. That is, since in the text there's no pronoun, "he", there's no sense in saying something like, "Who or what is the antecedent of the pronoun, 'he'?"

No. I am 7djengo7.

What (if anything) are you asking?

What (if any) point are you trying to make?

In John 18:1-9, is it told us that anybody asked Jesus any question(s)? No, it is not. Nobody asks Jesus, "Are you Jesus of Nazareth?" The only questioning that is reported is done by Jesus, Himself, asking, "Whom seek ye?" We are not told that anything Jesus said was prompted by, or intended to answer, a question.



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​

Introducing what concept?

Try to quote, from the passage, exactly what you're talking about, here.

What word(s) in the text lead you to imagine that, in the text, Jesus "is claiming to be...Jesus of Nazareth"? Of course, Jesus does not say, "I am Jesus of Nazareth". And, since Jesus does not say, "I am he"--does not use the pronoun, "he"--no question arises as to any antecedent of a pronoun. That is, since in the text there's no pronoun, "he", there's no sense in saying something like, "Who or what is the antecedent of the pronoun, 'he'?"

Let us start from the beginning, but not Genesis 1:1, but rather John 18:4-5

⁴ Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?

⁵ They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

The conversation the Jesus is engaging in is introduced by Jesus, "Whom seek ye?"

Jesus himself initiates the conversation, the conversation continues with the reply from them, them who?

John 18:3

Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.



Judas, with the band of men and officers whom Judas had received from the chief priests and Pharisees!

See, how simply checking the context provides us with the answers to our questions!

So, Jesus having started the conversation with his question, "whom seek ye?", receives the reply and the specific answer to his question!

Remarkable! They answer his question directly and accurately, they are seeking Jesus of Nazareth!

What is Jesus response to finding out who they are seeking?

He tells them that he is the one they seek! Remarkable, both Jesus and the mob are conversing, not only conversing but with each other!

Who ever heard of such a thing!

What does Jesus reply back to them?

That he is the one they are seeking, "I am he"

Wow! the third part of the conversation is Jesus telling them that he is the one they are seeking!

Imagine that! the two parties had a logical, topical conversation, with the results that both parties achieved their goals!

Surely only God himself and a mob could do that!

Or as an alternative, a rational human being and a mob with a purpose.

Or are rational conversations so unusual in human experience that we have to look to this passage as an example of how conversations can actually flow to its natural end?

No. I am 7djengo7.

Are you 7djengo7?

a. I am

b. I am not​

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[God's Truth]

Yes, scripture tells me that not only can I do the same works as Jesus Christ, but greater works.

Jesus said that to the apostles because he was sending them like his Father sent him.

You know you are no apostle and you can't do all the works and greater that Jesus did.


An apostle is one who is CHOSEN, CALLED, and SENT, and TAUGHT by Jesus, and able to do MANY MIRACLES.


Matthew 10:1 [ Jesus Sends Out the Twelve ] Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.

John 17:18 As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world.

John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Acts 1:2 until the day He was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles He had chosen.


Acts 14:3 So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders.

Hebrews 2:4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

Not only does scripture say that, but that is a direct quote of Jesus Christ,

So what is your problem with that?

Are you telling me that Jesus is badly mistaken?

When I speak of Jesus, I am not speaking of you; when I speak of you, I'm not speaking of Jesus.

You try to bring Jesus to your level, and you base the scriptures on that effort, which is wrong.

 

[7djengo7]

Let us start from the beginning, but not Genesis 1:1, but rather John 18:4-5

The beginning of what?

The conversation the [sic] Jesus is engaging in is introduced by Jesus, "Whom seek ye?"

Jesus himself initiates the conversation, the conversation continues with the reply from them, them who?

John 18:3

Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.



Judas, with the band of men and officers whom Judas had received from the chief priests and Pharisees!

See, how simply checking the context provides us with the answers to our questions!

Which question(s) do you imagine you've answered, here?

​

So, Jesus having started the conversation with his question, "whom seek ye?", receives the reply and the specific answer to his question!

Remarkable! They answer his question directly and accurately, they are seeking Jesus of Nazareth!

Not sure what, if anything, you mean by "directly and accurately", here. What is clear from the text is that, when Jesus said, "Whom seek ye?", they responded by saying, "Jesus of Nazareth".

What is Jesus response to finding out who [sic] they are seeking?

Are you saying that Jesus did not already know what they were going to say in response to His saying, "Whom seek ye?", and that He only came to know their response upon, and because of, their saying, "Jesus of Nazareth"?

He tells them that he is the one they seek!

Where does He tell them this? He, of course, does not say, "I am the one you seek".

In fact, not only does He not say, "I am the one you seek", but also, having said "Whom seek ye?" twice, and having twice been given the response, "Jesus of Nazareth", Jesus says, rather, "IF therefore ye seek me..." Notice that He does not even say, "SINCE therefore ye seek Jesus of Nazareth..."

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Remarkable, both Jesus and the mob are conversing, not only conversing but with each other!

Who ever heard of such a thing!

What does Jesus reply back to them?

That he is the one they are seeking, "I am he"

Again, whereas Jesus says, "I am", your "I am he" that you are trying to make Him say is nowhere to be found in the text.

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Wow! the third part of the conversation is Jesus telling them that he is the one they are seeking!

Where does Jesus say, "I am the one ye are seeking"? Nowhere.

Oh, and what would you say is "the fourth part of the conversation"?

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Imagine that! the two parties had a logical, topical conversation, with the results that both parties achieved their goals!

What "goals" would you say were "achieved" by "the two parties"?

Would you say that men going backward and falling to the ground was one of these "goals"?

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Surely only God himself and a mob could do that!

Or as an alternative, a rational human being and a mob with a purpose.

Or are rational conversations so unusual in human experience that we have to look to this passage as an example of how conversations can actually flow to its [sic] natural end?

Jesus said, "I am"; Jesus did not say, "I am he".

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Are you 7djengo7?

Yes.

What's your point? Is your saying to me, "Are you 7djengo7?", supposed to be somehow analogous to something in John 18? If so, then to what?

In John 18, the band of men, etc., did not say to Jesus, "Are you Jesus of Nazareth?" So, what's your point?

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a. I am

b. I am not

What's this for?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings 7dengo7,

Jesus said, "I am"; Jesus did not say, "I am he".

Could you explain why in each of the following, the KJV translators used “I am he” and not “I am”?
John 18:5 (KJV): They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
John 8:24,28 (KJV): 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
John 9:8–9 (KJV): 8 The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged? 9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[oatmeal]

The beginning of what?



Which question(s) do you imagine you've answered, here?

Not sure what, if anything, you mean by "directly and accurately", here. What is clear from the text is that, when Jesus said, "Whom seek ye?", they responded by saying, "Jesus of Nazareth".



Are you saying that Jesus did not already know what they were going to say in response to His saying, "Whom seek ye?", and that He only came to know their response upon, and because of, their saying, "Jesus of Nazareth"?



Where does He tell them this? He, of course, does not say, "I am the one you seek".

In fact, not only does He not say, "I am the one you seek", but also, having said "Whom seek ye?" twice, and having twice been given the response, "Jesus of Nazareth", Jesus says, rather, "IF therefore ye seek me..." Notice that He does not even say, "SINCE therefore ye seek Jesus of Nazareth..."

Again, whereas Jesus says, "I am", your "I am he" that you are trying to make Him say is nowhere to be found in the text.

Where does Jesus say, "I am the one ye are seeking"? Nowhere.

Oh, and what would you say is "the fourth part of the conversation"?

What "goals" would you say were "achieved" by "the two parties"?

Would you say that men going backward and falling to the ground was one of these "goals"?

Jesus said, "I am"; Jesus did not say, "I am he".

Yes.

What's your point? Is your saying to me, "Are you 7djengo7?", supposed to be somehow analogous to something in John 18? If so, then to what?

In John 18, the band of men, etc., did not say to Jesus, "Are you Jesus of Nazareth?" So, what's your point?

What's this for?

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Did Jesus already know who they were looking for? Yes, most likely, though that passage does not provide a phrase that directly and accurately says so.

If John 18:3-5 is not enough to clarify that Jesus is acknowledging that he is Jesus of Nazareth, the one whom they are seeking we see this scenario repeated in John 18:6-9

⁶ As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

⁷ Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.

⁸ Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:

⁹ That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

Thus clarifying that Jesus is telling them by "I am he" or if you prefer, "I am" that he is that very Jesus of Nazareth whom they are seeking.

And if that is not enough, the scripture tells us why Jesus identifies himself as the one whom they are seeking in verse 9


Religion is notorious for complicating scripture, confusing and demoralizing the average truth seeker​

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