Originally posted by JudgeRightly
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Which, again, brings us back to this:
Continuing on...
You're ASSUMING that God knew that they would do the things they did, rather than just accurately predict what they would do, the former of which excludes any choice from the matter, and you're left with what amounts to what the Greeks called "Fate."
Why?
See here:
https://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=5352334
As Clete said, there were times when God's predictions, some of which He even specified "without fail," failed that He wanted to come to pass, and others that He DID NOT want to come to pass, that did.
No, He did not.
Read the verse again, slowly this time.
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. - Revelation 17:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV
Did you catch it?
The title of the book?
"The Book of Life"
Not:
"The Book of Life from the foundation of the world"
The phrase "from the foundation of the world" is not referring to the book, but to the people who lived on the earth.
"And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast"
In other words, people whose names were never written in the Book of Life, those people will marvel.
If what you have been taught is found to be wrong, you shouldn't cling to it.
It's called being intellectually dishonest.
You're so attached to what you've been taught, that you're not willing to accept correction, because it goes against what you were taught.
You should be willing to discard doctrine that has been shown to be false, and re-examine doctrine that has holes in it.
A cracked foundation will eventually lead to the building's collapse.
Your foundation is cracked. You should reevaluate your position.
Which isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying that the Bible DOES NOT say that God IS those things, or at the very least, not in the same way you understand those things.
Are you willing to fall on that sword?
Because taking such a position, as a natural consequence, makes you a Necessary Being.
Again, I point to http://kgov.com/amber and https://kgov.com/bel/20190723.
God is the only necessary being.
The fact remains that your doctrine makes you a necessary being (even though you are not). It's a form of idolatry, and even blasphemy.
I advise you to retract your statement, that "If God is not all knowing then He is not God."
The idea that God is free (let alone man) has been around since before Christ came to the earth.
See Jeremiah 18.
Then along came Augustine and his adherence to Plato's and Aristotle's pagan teachings on fate, and then Calvin with his adherence to Augustine, and you end up with the omni's and im's.
It tries to show God for who He really is, not through the lens of pagan Greek philosophy, but through the lens of scripture.
Rather, what it questions is the pagan foundations of many doctrines which have been incorporated into Christianity that are not in the Bible.
This is an argument from incredulity, a logical fallacy.
See Clete's post above.
Continuing on...
You're ASSUMING that God knew that they would do the things they did, rather than just accurately predict what they would do, the former of which excludes any choice from the matter, and you're left with what amounts to what the Greeks called "Fate."
Why?
See here:
https://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=5352334
As Clete said, there were times when God's predictions, some of which He even specified "without fail," failed that He wanted to come to pass, and others that He DID NOT want to come to pass, that did.
No, He did not.
Read the verse again, slowly this time.
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. - Revelation 17:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV
Did you catch it?
The title of the book?
"The Book of Life"
Not:
"The Book of Life from the foundation of the world"
The phrase "from the foundation of the world" is not referring to the book, but to the people who lived on the earth.
"And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast"
In other words, people whose names were never written in the Book of Life, those people will marvel.
If what you have been taught is found to be wrong, you shouldn't cling to it.
It's called being intellectually dishonest.
You're so attached to what you've been taught, that you're not willing to accept correction, because it goes against what you were taught.
You should be willing to discard doctrine that has been shown to be false, and re-examine doctrine that has holes in it.
A cracked foundation will eventually lead to the building's collapse.
Your foundation is cracked. You should reevaluate your position.
Which isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying that the Bible DOES NOT say that God IS those things, or at the very least, not in the same way you understand those things.
Are you willing to fall on that sword?
Because taking such a position, as a natural consequence, makes you a Necessary Being.
Again, I point to http://kgov.com/amber and https://kgov.com/bel/20190723.
God is the only necessary being.
The fact remains that your doctrine makes you a necessary being (even though you are not). It's a form of idolatry, and even blasphemy.
I advise you to retract your statement, that "If God is not all knowing then He is not God."
The idea that God is free (let alone man) has been around since before Christ came to the earth.
See Jeremiah 18.
Then along came Augustine and his adherence to Plato's and Aristotle's pagan teachings on fate, and then Calvin with his adherence to Augustine, and you end up with the omni's and im's.
It tries to show God for who He really is, not through the lens of pagan Greek philosophy, but through the lens of scripture.
Rather, what it questions is the pagan foundations of many doctrines which have been incorporated into Christianity that are not in the Bible.
This is an argument from incredulity, a logical fallacy.
See Clete's post above.
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