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  • Theology Club: Seeing possibilities?

    If the future has not happened yet, (as it is perceived by us to not have happened yet); and God is not limited by anything other than Himself; and if we all have a free will, choices to make; would anything inhibit God from seeing every possible choice that could unfold and the infinite possible ramifications that could make up the future? All the while His Spirit works to move earthly hearts into His will as it is in Heaven.

    In effect God seeing so much more and knowing so much more than one finite future.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jamie Gigliotti View Post
    If the future has not happened yet, (as it is perceived by us to not have happened yet); and God is not limited by anything other than Himself; and if we all have a free will, choices to make; would anything inhibit God from seeing every possible choice that could unfold and the infinite possible ramifications that could make up the future? All the while His Spirit works to move earthly hearts into His will as it is in Heaven.

    In effect God seeing so much more and knowing so much more than one finite future.
    Only His self interest in not being bored out of His mind.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
      Only His self interest in not being bored out of His mind.
      That is really funny!

      On a serious note I do think our freedom does possibly remove some of the boredom of a completely determined existence, an awfully lonely existence.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Jamie Gigliotti View Post
        That is really funny!

        On a serious note I do think our freedom does possibly remove some of the boredom of a completely determined existence, an awfully lonely existence.
        Certainly, but thinking about it would be blasé.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
          Certainly, but thinking about it would be blasé.
          How would it be different than the loving concern earthly parents express as we attempt to guide our children onto better paths?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Jamie Gigliotti View Post
            How would it be different than the loving concern earthly parents express as we attempt to guide our children onto better paths?
            Because that's a lot to consider [understatement of eternity]. Why consider every single possibility when what actually matters is what is?
            Last edited by Lighthouse; November 18th, 2016, 10:41 PM.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
              Because that's a lot to consider [understatement of eternity]. Why consider every single possibility when what actual matters is what is?
              The point being that if there is free will and that God has demonstrated His desire to align our will with His, and also God has power see beyond the present, the erratic nature of our will open ups the possibility that this is true.

              A determinist's view seems to be defeated with God responding to prayer and relenting in the midst of choices such as the Ninevites.
              Open theist's then wrestle with God having some knowledge of the future (Peter's denial), which negate's no knowledge of the future.

              If our relation to Him is interactive, free, fluid and yet He has some knowledge of where we are going, I think logically 'seeing possibilties' in a mind that can not be fathomed could possibly be true.

              But honestly I do think this is territory that here we may only be able to "know in part".

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Jamie Gigliotti View Post
                The point being that if there is free will and that God has demonstrated His desire to align our will with His, and also God has power see beyond the present, the erratic nature of our will open ups the possibility that this is true.

                A determinist's view seems to be defeated with God responding to prayer and relenting in the midst of choices such as the Ninevites.
                Open theist's then wrestle with God having some knowledge of the future (Peter's denial), which negate's no knowledge of the future.

                If our relation to Him is interactive, free, fluid and yet He has some knowledge of where we are going, I think logically 'seeing possibilties' in a mind that can not be fathomed could possibly be true.

                But honestly I do think this is territory that here we may only be able to "know in part".
                I can't say that I disagree here, but I do feel the need to point out that as an open theist myself I do not believe, and have never heard an open theist say, that God has absolutely no knowledge of the future.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
                  I can't say that I disagree here, but I do feel the need to point out that as an open theist myself I do not believe, and have never heard an open theist say, that God has absolutely no knowledge of the future.
                  Is God's knowledge of the future limited and if so in what way?
                  He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                  Jim Elliot

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                    Is God's knowledge of the future limited and if so in what way?
                    1. Yes.
                    2. However He wants it to be.
                    3. In that the future does not exist to be known.


                    He can know His plans, and whether they are certain or contingent.

                    Jesus willfully gave up His knowledge of the plans of certain events, citing that the Father was the only One Who knew the time of His return, for instance.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
                      1. Yes.
                      2. However He wants it to be.
                      3. In that the future does not exist to be known.


                      He can know His plans, and whether they are certain or contingent.

                      Jesus willfully gave up His knowledge of the plans of certain events, citing that the Father was the only One Who knew the time of His return, for instance.
                      So, are you saying that His knowledge is limited? If so doesn't that nullify His omniscience?
                      He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                      Jim Elliot

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                        So, are you saying that His knowledge is limited?
                        No. The object of knowledge is limited.

                        If my hand is empty and someone asks what color the ball in my hand is I would not be wrong if I did not answer that question with the name of a color. And one would not say that my knowledge was limited because I did not answer thusly.

                        If so doesn't that nullify His omniscience?
                        Is His omniscience nullified because He cannot tell you the population of Wonderland?
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