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How does open theism intepret these verses?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Delmar View Post
    The very fact that a conditional promise was made, shows that the outcome was not predetermined.
    I agree that He didn't predetermine it, He just knows whether they will meet the condition or not, they make the choice.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by Angel4Truth View Post
      I agree that He didn't predetermine it, He just knows whether they will meet the condition or not, they make the choice.
      Okay but then the question is... how far in advance did God know the outcome?
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      • #18
        Originally posted by Eeset View Post
        I have read through all the replies as well as the original post. To me they all seem like sophistry. Humans arguing about how God thinks, changes or doesn't change is just plain silly. Moses argued with God did he not?
        I can understand what you are saying but here is the deal.... a theology came along a few hundred years ago that claims that God predetermines everything that has every happened or that will every happen in minute detail. That notion has biblical implications. For instance, if that notion is true... evangelism is nothing more than "going through the motions", since those who will be saved will be saved, and those who are going to hell are going to hell, regardless of any effort on our part.

        That's why these types of discussions occur. It's our way of investigating God's character to see if His word matches the claims of some 16th century theologian.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by Eeset View Post
          I have read through all the replies as well as the original post. To me they all seem like sophistry. Humans arguing about how God thinks, changes or doesn't change is just plain silly. Moses argued with God did he not?
          Moses did argue with God--Very true. Also very true that no human has all the answers concerning God. But though discussion on the subject, something can be learned. Sophistry isn't the point of this thread.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Knight View Post
            I can understand what you are saying but here is the deal.... a theology came along a few hundred years ago that claims that God predetermines everything that has every happened or that will every happen in minute detail. That notion has biblical implications. For instance, if that notion is true... evangelism is nothing more than "going through the motions", since those who will be saved will be saved, and those who are going to hell are going to hell, regardless of any effort on our part.

            That's why these types of discussions occur. It's our way of investigating God's character to see if His word matches the claims of some 16th century theologian.
            SPOTD The first one for this forum.

            June is Gay Pride Month.Tolerance and diversity? ☞ More like tolerate perversity.☠

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Eeset View Post
              ...Moses argued with God did he not?
              I just want to make sure I understand your point here. Would your point be something along the line of ...

              Moses argued with God, so of coarse the future is not settled.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Eeset View Post
                I have read through all the replies as well as the original post. To me they all seem like sophistry. Humans arguing about how God thinks, changes or doesn't change is just plain silly. Moses argued with God did he not?
                I've argued with God. I've raged at God.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Delmar View Post
                  I just want to make sure I understand your point here. Would your point be something along the line of ...

                  Moses argued with God, so of coarse the future is not settled.
                  Well, yes. If I understand what happened God was about to wipe the nation of Israel off the face of the Earth. Moses persuaded God to take a different course. But you can back it up to why God was going to do that. He had made a great promise centuries before to Abraham and the actions of the people had caused God to alter an unconditional promise.

                  Exodus 32:10

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                  • #24
                    @ A4T. I was certainly not trying to derail your thread. Why ever would you think so?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Eeset View Post
                      Well, yes. If I understand what happened God was about to wipe the nation of Israel off the face of the Earth. Moses persuaded God to take a different course. But you can back it up to why God was going to do that. He had made a great promise centuries before to Abraham and the actions of the people had caused God to alter an unconditional promise.

                      Exodus 32:10
                      Would you then, describe yourself as an open theist?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Delmar View Post
                        Would you then, describe yourself as an open theist?
                        No. I am not sophisticated enough to comprehend all that such a designation would involve. I am a very simple person who accepts that God is way beyond my comprehension.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Knight View Post
                          Okay but then the question is... how far in advance did God know the outcome?
                          Unknown and would depend on what was happening at the time, i dont think He watches us personally 24/7 if that is what you are asking.
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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Angel4Truth View Post
                            Unknown and would depend on what was happening at the time, i dont think He watches us personally 24/7 if that is what you are asking.
                            God is fully aware of us 24/7. If He was not, someone could grossly sin and God would not know the details to judge righteously. Satan could take us out without God having a chance to intervene (or are angels more omniscient than God?!).
                            Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by godrulz View Post
                              God is fully aware of us 24/7. If He was not, someone could grossly sin and God would not know the details to judge righteously. Satan could take us out without God having a chance to intervene (or are angels more omniscient than God?!).
                              Aware of us and personally watching us are not the same thing.

                              Satan cannot do anything that is not allowed - see Job.

                              I believe the Father is omniscient but not Christ, I believe certain things are brought to Gods attention as needed and our prayers are taken up to God via angels like the bible says and i believe those things explain for example why Christ would not know the time of His return, and deal with Christ being tempted in every point as we are, because we do not know the future. (The Father does though imo)

                              It also explains why God "came down to see" certain things in scripture first hand.

                              The angels i believe record everything so no, God doesnt have to be watching our every move or "He might miss a sin" as you say.
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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Eeset View Post
                                @ A4T. I was certainly not trying to derail your thread. Why ever would you think so?
                                Im not the topic, if you need to speak with me, you know how to pm me, thanks.
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