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  • Theology Club: Romans through Philemon

    Is Romans through Philemon the basis for teaching in the Body of Christ?
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

  • #2
    Yes.

    Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

    Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
    Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
    Rom 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

    Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

    Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
    Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:


    1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

    2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
    Last edited by steko; September 10th, 2018, 07:08 AM.
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by steko View Post
      Yes.

      Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

      Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
      Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
      Rom 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

      Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

      Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
      Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:


      1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

      2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
      Good post.
      Last edited by Grosnick Marowbe; September 10th, 2018, 07:37 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
        Is Romans through Philemon the basis for teaching in the Body of Christ?
        Plus the rest of the epistles!

        Those who received the Hebrew epistles were taught that they too will be raptured and that will only happen to the members of the Body of Christ.

        Comment


        • #5
          Delete

          Comment


          • #6
            Strange how some people cannot understand the commission given to the twelve and the other commission given to the one.
            All of my ancestors are human.
            Originally posted by Squeaky
            That explains why your an idiot.
            Originally posted by God's Truth
            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
              Strange how some people cannot understand the commission given to the twelve and the other commission given to the one.
              Some people think that when Israel was set aside temporarily that the Twelve went down with that sinking ship even though the Scriptures reveal that the believing remnant out of Israel were made members of the Body of Christ:
              "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:14-15).

              Some people just make up the idea that the the middle wall of partition remains between some of the Jewish believers and the Gentile believers.

              They think they know more about this than Paul who states in no uncertain terms that the middle wall has been broken down!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                Some people think that when Israel was set aside temporarily that the Twelve went down with that sinking ship even though the Scriptures reveal that the believing remnant out of Israel were made members of the Body of Christ:
                "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:14-15).

                Some people just make up the idea that the the middle wall of partition remains between some of the Jewish believers and the Gentile believers.

                They think they know more about this than Paul who states in no uncertain terms that the middle wall has been broken down!
                LOL... Jerry, why do you ALWAYS misrepresent other peoples views? I guess that is standard behavior for you.

                The twelve did not "go down with that sinking ship", but their commission was NOT CHANGED. They are STILL the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of Israel. Or do you believe that the Lord was incorrect about that? Or is it another "bad translation"?

                I'd be excited to see where ANY of the Hebrew epistles speak of the breaking down of the middle wall. Did James know about it in James 1:1?

                I know that through PAUL we learn about it... being the ONE apostle of the Gentiles.
                All of my ancestors are human.
                Originally posted by Squeaky
                That explains why your an idiot.
                Originally posted by God's Truth
                Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                  The twelve did not "go down with that sinking ship", but their commission was NOT CHANGED.
                  Perhaps the verses which I quoted from the epistle to the Ephesians are not in your Bible? Or perhaps you just refuse to believe what is said there?

                  I am still waiting for your evidence that the middle wall of partition still stands between some of the Jewish believers and the Gentile believers.

                  Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                  They are STILL the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of Israel. Or do you believe that the Lord was incorrect about that? Or is it another "bad translation"?
                  So?

                  Do you not know that the members of the Body of Christ will also reign on the earth when they judge the world (1 Cor.6:2)?

                  Or do you deny that once those in the Body will be with the Lord Jesus when He will return to the earth to usher in His kingdom despite what Paul said here?:

                  "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord"
                  (1 Thess.4:17).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                    The twelve did not "go down with that sinking ship", but their commission was NOT CHANGED.
                    No? In the future the nation of Israel will be preaching the gospel of the kingdom (Mt.24:14) and according to your ideas the Hebrew epistles will be their guide to preaching that gospel. And Peter does speak of a gospel in his first epistle (1 Pet.1:12) and here we can see the gospel of which Peter speaks:

                    "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).

                    For your information that is not the "gospel of the kingdom" but instead the gospel which Paul referred to as "the preaching of the Cross."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                      Perhaps the verses which I quoted from the epistle to the Ephesians are not in your Bible? Or perhaps you just refuse to believe what is said there?
                      Nice insults Jerry the sinless one.

                      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                      I am still waiting for your evidence that the middle wall of partition still stands between some of the Jewish believers and the Gentile believers.
                      Indeed the wall is down. But their CALLING remains.

                      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                      So?
                      So their calling remains the same.

                      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                      Do you not know that the members of the Body of Christ will also reign on the earth when they judge the world (1 Cor.6:2)?
                      Were does it say that the body of Christ will also reign on earth?

                      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                      Or do you deny that once those in the Body will be with the Lord Jesus when He will return to the earth to usher in His kingdom despite what Paul said here?:

                      "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord"
                      (1 Thess.4:17).
                      I don't deny any scripture. But you misuse 2 Cor 6:14
                      All of my ancestors are human.
                      Originally posted by Squeaky
                      That explains why your an idiot.
                      Originally posted by God's Truth
                      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                        No? In the future the nation of Israel will be preaching the gospel of the kingdom (Mt.24:14) and according to your ideas the Hebrew epistles will be their guide to preaching that gospel. And Peter does speak of a gospel in his first epistle (1 Pet.1:12) and here we can see the gospel of which Peter speaks:

                        "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).

                        For your information that is not the "gospel of the kingdom" but instead the gospel which Paul referred to as "the preaching of the Cross."
                        Jerry the Great Conflater, hard at work again.

                        The gospel of the grace of God is not just the preaching of the cross.

                        Perhaps you missed that Peter has a target audience that is the SAME as James.
                        1Pe 1:1 KJV Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

                        Jas 1:1 KJV James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.


                        Why does he do that?
                        All of my ancestors are human.
                        Originally posted by Squeaky
                        That explains why your an idiot.
                        Originally posted by God's Truth
                        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                          The gospel of the grace of God is not just the preaching of the cross.
                          So are you arguing that the following words are speaking of the gospel of the kingdom?:

                          "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).

                          According to your ideas the doctrine found in the Hebrew epistles will find it's fulfillment after those in the Body of Christ are raptured so they will be preaching the gospel of the kingdom when the time comes:

                          "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Mt.24:14).

                          The gospel which I quoted from Peter's first epistle is not the "gospel of the kingdom" but instead it is same one which Paul preached here:

                          "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures"
                          (1 Cor.15:1-4).

                          Peter:
                          "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).

                          This alone proves that the doctrine found in the Hebrew epistles is not for the future dispensation but instead for the present one.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                            So are you arguing that the following words are speaking of the gospel of the kingdom?:

                            "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).

                            According to your ideas the doctrine found in the Hebrew epistles will find it's fulfillment after those in the Body of Christ are raptured so they will be preaching the gospel of the kingdom when the time comes:

                            "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Mt.24:14).

                            The gospel which I quoted from Peter's first epistle is not the "gospel of the kingdom" but instead it is same one which Paul preached here:

                            "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures"
                            (1 Cor.15:1-4).

                            Peter:
                            "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).

                            This alone proves that the doctrine found in the Hebrew epistles is not for the future dispensation but instead for the present one.
                            You're lost in a maze of your own making. Enjoy it.

                            Peter has a throne to sit on in the kingdom, Paul does not.
                            All of my ancestors are human.
                            Originally posted by Squeaky
                            That explains why your an idiot.
                            Originally posted by God's Truth
                            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                              You're lost in a maze of your own making. Enjoy it.

                              Peter has a throne to sit on in the kingdom, Paul does not.
                              So is that your argument for asserting that the "gospel of the kingdom" is the same gospel Peter spoke of in his first epistle here?:

                              "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).

                              Surely you can do better than that! Next you will be telling us that even though Peter received the Holy Spirit he wasn't yet saved!

                              Comment

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