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  • #31
    I said it is a whisker fine dividing line but the difference it makes as to which side you fall on has enormous consequences

    God did not conclude all in unbelief, the Christ rejecting Jews, those He concluded [along with the world] in unbelief.

    Peter and the others did NOT understand but through Cornelius God TAUGHT them and then they did understand. It became clear why God needed to raise up Paul with a special anointing to teach the Gentiles and he IS our apostle.

    But if you lump the believing Jews with the unbelieving Jews it is division too far, the believing Jews are church, the body of Christ.

    It is obvious that since they divided labours between Paul and the others that the Jewish only church would wane but the church of Jew + Gentile would grow until that was the only church....that still does not designate this waning church as unbelievers.

    That is my position
    One lavished upon in the Beloved
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    • #32
      Your position, Totten.

      Just as RD and I differ somewhat as to the following to you by him...

      I guess that you still only understand a caricature of MAD. Even many MAD's are confused about what MAD actually means.

      When God separated Israel from the rest of the world as His people, Gentiles could still join with them. Now, in the dispensation of the grace of God, both Jew and Gentile can join together IN CHRIST without Israel. Either way, everyone can come to God on His terms.
      Personally, whether I hold a same view with someone or not; I find ALL sides a fascinating study in how perception works, in general.

      It is why we each differ on some points, at times.

      Where we are each actually approaching our perception of a thing from, in contrast to where we each conclude we are approaching said perception of said thing from.

      Been fascinated with that all my life. Love it!

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Danoh View Post
        Your position, Totten.

        Just as RD and I differ somewhat as to the following to you by him...



        Personally, whether I hold a same view with someone or not; I find ALL sides a fascinating study in how perception works, in general.

        It is why we each differ on some points, at times.

        Where we are each actually approaching our perception of a thing from, in contrast to where we each conclude we are approaching said perception of said thing from.

        Been fascinated with that all my life. Love it!
        It is not a caricature, where I differ from you is in that I draw a sharp divide between believing Jew and Christ rejecting Jew.

        I totally UNDERSTAND that MADianites do not regard the believing Jew quite the same as the unbelieving Jew, yet still they make a divide there between believing Jews and the church.

        Not only is there no division but there positively must be no division....that is exactly what Paul was getting so het up about.

        He was not angry that Cephas joined with the Gentiles at Antioch he was angry when Cephas suddenly gathered up his frock and separated from the Gentiles.
        One lavished upon in the Beloved
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        • #34
          Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
          I said it is a whisker fine dividing line but the difference it makes as to which side you fall on has enormous consequences

          God did not conclude all in unbelief, the Christ rejecting Jews, those He concluded [along with the world] in unbelief.
          I'm not saying that everyone was an unbeliever, I'm just quoting the Word of God that says:
          Rom 11:32 KJV For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
          No doubt that this is a generalization, but what it means is that Both Jews and Gentiles failed to meet God's demands for obedience and THIS is when He revealed His greatest mercy, which is the gospel of the grace of God.

          Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
          Peter and the others did NOT understand but through Cornelius God TAUGHT them and then they did understand. It became clear why God needed to raise up Paul with a special anointing to teach the Gentiles and he IS our apostle.
          Cornelius was NOT the model/pattern for the gospel of the grace of God; Paul was.

          Cornelius was a Gentile that blessed Israel.
          Act 10:2 KJV A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
          Who do you think "the people" are there?

          Peter was not so ignorant as people continue to try to make him. He was following what Jesus has told him to do. God was making a CHANGE and that is what Peter did not understand.

          Note that Peter did NOT teach Cornelius or his family anything new here. It was ALL what John the B and Jesus had said before.

          Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
          But if you lump the believing Jews with the unbelieving Jews it is division too far, the believing Jews are church, the body of Christ.
          The body of Christ has NEITHER Jews NOR Gentiles (Gal 3:28).

          Once again, you misunderstand what is meant by "He concluded all in unbelief".

          Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
          It is obvious that since they divided labours between Paul and the others that the Jewish only church would wane but the church of Jew + Gentile would grow until that was the only church....that still does not designate this waning church as unbelievers.

          That is my position
          I did NOT say that they were unbelievers, only that God "had concluded them all in unbelief, that He MIGHT HAVE MERCY ON ALL".
          Gal 3:28 KJV There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
          All of my ancestors are human.
          Originally posted by Squeaky
          That explains why your an idiot.
          Originally posted by God's Truth
          Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
          Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
          (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

          1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
          (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

          Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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          • #35
            Paul was still in short pants when God made of twain one new man, one body at the cross.

            But you say they were still twain
            One lavished upon in the Beloved
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            • #36
              Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
              Paul was still in short pants when God made of twain one new man, one body at the cross.

              But you say they were still twain
              Might as well confuse the Lord's death some two thousand years ago, with the sense of "slain before the foundation of the world."

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