Theology Club: Is MAD doctrine correct?

[godrulz]

for the remission of sins


They (all the house of Israel-every one of them) were to repent (change their mind) about WHO Jesus Christ was and be identified (water baptized) for the REMISSION of sins, and they would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. NO MENTION "how that Christ died for our sins".

It is definitely NOT the same gospel Paul preached!

You wrongly divorce the person and work of Christ, germane to the one gospel preached by Peter and Paul.

 

[godrulz]

What makes you think that he did not preach the resurrection?

Acts 17:31-33 King James Version (KJV)

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

33 So Paul departed from among them.

Peter preaches the resurrection in Acts 2 also. You are being arbitrary and inconsistent to retain a wrong view.

 

[godrulz]

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Their blotting out of sins is at the second coming of the Lord

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Paul confirms it.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.



Whereas we in the Body have now received the atonement.

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

It's as simple to understand as: They look forward to that day (Zechariah 13:1 KJV, 1 John 1:9 KJV while we look back to the cross Colossians 2:13 KJV).

You are confusing contexts about the future national restoration of Israel during the Trib/mill. (eschatological) with contexts about Jew/Gentile one in Christ (soteriological) with or without Paul.

This is the problem with proof texting a preconceived idea instead of formulating theology from all the relevant evidence exegeted in context.

 

[godrulz]

You don't have a clue what you're even talking about.

He actually knows what he is talking about. When there are issues with KJV, proof texting, etc., you resort to ad hominem instead of dealing with evidence.

 

[godrulz]

Let's test that. What did Peter say Christ was raised from the dead for in Acts 2? And now, what did Paul say was the reason God raised Him from the dead?

If those things are different, they are not the same.

You wrongly assume all truth is in one verse. Look at all the verses by Peter, John, and Paul, and you will see support for the one gospel with Paul fleshing out doctrinal details in a more systematic, unique way. There is no gospel apart from the cross and resurrection. Your two gospel theory is a denial of His finished work.

 

[godrulz]

Actually, the author states it in the future tense. Dan P can probably show us that. lain:

Peter and John use present or past tenses and Paul also uses future tenses. Context determines if it is about national Israel in the future, Jews and Gentiles individually, etc.

MAD is a mess.

 

[godrulz]

The "good news" or gospel which was preached to the Jews during the Acts period is the truth that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And those who believed that gospel were saved when they believed it (John 20:31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).

The "good news" or gospel which was preached to the Gentiles concerned the "purpose" of the Lord Jesus' death--that He died for our sins. And those who believe that are saved the moment when they believe (1 Cor.15:1-3).

You are wrongly divorcing the person and work of Christ. Both are germane to the gospel and understood by Peter, John, and Paul.

 

[godrulz]

It's almost as if you want to ignore the fact that the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. Anyone who is in the Body of Christ got here by trusting the Lord believing IT for salvation. Further,more, I don't care what Mr. Stam has to say about anything. He didn't even believe the KJB is the pure words of the Lord. If you want to have a discussion with me, you can leave the commentaries out of it and actually post what YOU believe.

KJV0 and MAD are both erroneous. You should not be so arrogant in your ignorance.

 

[godrulz]

:mock: those who rely on the word of men

Other versions are as much the Word of God as KJV is. KJV is not the most accurate, readable version. KJV translators rejected KJVO and so should you.

 

[godrulz]

These wrong dividers gospel doesn't have the power to save anyone today. They don't preach the gospel of Christ as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. Their gospel is powerless. There's no blood in their gospel.

Hogwash. Rejecting your two gospel circ vs uncirc theory is not rejecting the gospel. Virtually all members in the global Body of Christ have not heard of MAD or reject it. It is not the gospel. None of us follow your circ gospel (which is a false vs true gospel). We are Pauline believers and MAD is far from the only view that fully embraces Paul, I Cor. 15, etc. You are turning your pet view into a sect/cult creating unnecessary confusion and division for the uninformed. Shame.

 

[godrulz]

They want to go on and on about the WHO of Jesus Christ , but they ignore the WHAT of the cross. They are on the sidelines. They are not committed to the ministry of reconciliation.

We talk about the who (The Lord Jesus, fully God, fully man, Messiah, King, Lord, Saviour, Judge, Alpha and Omega, etc.) AND the work of Christ (death, resurrection, atonement, etc.).

It is both/and vs either/or, but you make it either/or and invent two gospels that are not found in Scripture.

 

[godrulz]

As I have posted over and over: Peter preached and believed that Israel's sins will be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. That's the second coming.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The apostle Paul confirms it in Romans (written Acts 20).

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

It is future for them!

You are confusing eschatological, national Israel, covenant, future restoration with individual soteriological issues (Jew/Gentile one in Christ by grace through faith post-cross).

You are proof texting contexts about Israel and her future restoration while ignoring the ones about individual Jews coming to Christ to be born again throughout church history from Acts 2 ff.

 

[godrulz]

Ok. Did God promise to preserve his pure words?

There is no proof text that supports KJVO. Any verse could be claimed by any other version. KJV relies on logical fallacies like begging the question/circular reasoning and is contradicted by the evidence.

 

[Nick M]

You wrongly divorce the person and work of Christ, germane to the one gospel preached by Peter and Paul.

The germans got nothing to do with this. You moose twit.

 

[heir]

MAD is a non-starter view.

and yet 15 posts in a row in a MAD forum

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You are wrongly divorcing the person and work of Christ. Both are germane to the gospel and understood by Peter, John, and Paul.

So did Peter on the day of Pentecost. His sermon by which men were being saved said not a word about the purpose of the Cross--that Christ died for our sins.

Too bad that you were not alive in the first century so that you could have corrected him.

As usual, you are a joke!

To you the "good news" that Christ died for our sins is the same "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. All you prove is that you will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous!

 

[Lighthouse]

and yet 15 posts in a row in a MAD forum

I know, right?

 

[godrulz]

and yet 15 posts in a row in a MAD forum

False teaching has consequences and people should make an informed opinion. I was away and just caught up.:argue:

 

[godrulz]

So did Peter on the day of Pentecost. His sermon by which men were being saved said not a word about the purpose of the Cross--that Christ died for our sins.

Too bad that you were not alive in the first century so that you could have corrected him.

As usual, you are a joke!

To you the "good news" that Christ died for our sins is the same "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. All you prove is that you will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous!

People are saved by grace through faith in Christ. A modern, Pauline salvation message does not require theological perfection from the seeker nor a systematic understanding of theology.

The gospel includes truths about who He is and what He has done. This is what Paul taught also. Cults teach about the what of salvation, but are not saved because they deny the who. Some Catholics may be right about the who, but wrong about the what.

The person and work of Christ is the Pauline gospel. MAD arbitrarily, nonsensically divides this. There is no salvation while rejecting the Deity of Christ, resurrection of Christ, death of Christ (Muslims do all the above). If you have the wrong Jesus (JW Michael; LDS polytheism; Muslim prophet), you will be trusting a counterfeit even if you are somewhat right about His work.

This self-evident principle affirmed by Pauline gospel is another good reason to reject the hyper-division of MAD/ultradisp.

You get some things right, but you so wrong on other things.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

and yet 15 posts in a row in a MAD forum

Same soundbytes and cliches, no need to even read them.