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For Sincere Inquisitors ONLY: MAD Explained

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  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Galatians 2:6-9 English Standard Version (ESV)

    6 And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

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  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

    I get my ideas from Romans through Philemon. Where do you get yours? Yes, I know that Jews who believe in Jesus are saved
    But you said the following:

    If they believed in Paul's gospel.
    The Jews were being saved before Paul was even converted. Here is what the Lord Jesus told them when He walked the earth:

    "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).

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  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by heir View Post
    Peter was not saved as we are having now received the atonement, but looks forward to salvation at the second coming of Christ (Acts 3:19-21 KJV, 1 Peter 1:7-13 KJV).
    How could you possibly be so confused?

    Here are the Lord Jesus' own words spoken to the Jews who lived under the law:

    "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).


    The Lord Jesus told these Jews that those who believe have "eternal life," not will have eternal life.

    Peter also said the following:

    "God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:8-11).

    According to you Peter wasn't yet saved!

    It is obvious that you either don't believe what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews at John 6:47 or you are not even aware that He told the Jews that!

    I would recommend that you read the Bible before you tell others on this forum things which are not true! A little Bible study goes a long way!

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  • heir
    replied
    Originally posted by lifeisgood View Post
    Sometimes I do not understand why we say 'Paul's gospel'. Was Peter, etc. saved under Paul's Gospel? or do we consider that Peter. etc. was not saved BEFORE Paul came into the scene? There is no such thing as Paul's Gospel. It is the same problem I have when people tell me that it is the Revelation of John. There is no such thing as the revelation of John in the book of Revelation.
    Paul called it his gospel in Romans 2:16 KJV, Romans 16:25 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:8 KJV why shouldn't we? Paul was given the dispensation of the gospel (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV) having received his gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) by direct revelation of the risen Lord Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11-12 KJV).

    That which Peter preached was that which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began (Acts 3:21 KJV) while Paul's gospel was kept secret since the world began (Romans 16:25-26 KJV) and Paul tells us why (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV). Peter was not saved as we are having now received the atonement, but looks forward to salvation at the second coming of Christ (Acts 3:19-21 KJV, 1 Peter 1:7-13 KJV).

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  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    Where do you get your strange ideas, Bright Raven? Do you not even understand that the Jews who believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, were "born of God" when theybelieved that truth (1 Jn.5:1-5; Jn.20:30-31)?

    Are you willing to argue that even though they were born of God that they weren't saved?
    I get my ideas from Romans through Philemon. Where do you get yours? Yes, I know that Jews who believe in Jesus are saved

    Leave a comment:


  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

    If they believed in Paul's gospel.
    Where do you get your strange ideas, Bright Raven? Do you not even understand that the Jews who believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, were "born of God" when theybelieved that truth (1 Jn.5:1-5; Jn.20:30-31)?

    Are you willing to argue that even though they were born of God that they weren't saved?

    Leave a comment:


  • lifeisgood
    replied
    Sometimes I do not understand why we say 'Paul's gospel'. Was Peter, etc. saved under Paul's Gospel? or do we consider that Peter. etc. was not saved BEFORE Paul came into the scene? There is no such thing as Paul's Gospel. It is the same problem I have when people tell me that it is the Revelation of John. There is no such thing as the revelation of John in the book of Revelation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    Yes, I believe that. But were not the Jews who lived under the law saved when they were born again by believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (1 Jn.5:1-5)?
    If they believed in Paul's gospel.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Jerry, We are saved by believing in the Gospel as given by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. You do believe this don't you?
    Yes, I believe that. But were not the Jews who lived under the law saved when they were born again by believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (1 Jn.5:1-5)?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So no one was saved by believing the Who of Jesus Christ despite what we read at 1 John 5:1-5 and John 20:30-31?
    Jerry, We are saved by believing in the Gospel as given by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. You do believe this don't you?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by heir View Post
    None of that negates the fact that Paul preached the gospel of God/the WHO of Jesus Christ before he got to his saving gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV-the gospel of Christ, the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first and also to the Greek Romans 1:16-17 KJV). After all, he was at that time separated unto the gospel of God (Romans 1:1 KJV).
    So no one was saved by believing the Who of Jesus Christ despite what we read at 1 John 5:1-5 and John 20:30-31?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    I say that the Jews who lived under the law were saved apart from works by faith alone.

    Do you agree with that?
    Maybe it is time to read Hebrews 11 again?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by heir View Post
    I'm not much into reading Jerry as he wrongly divides.
    I say that the Jews who lived under the law were saved apart from works by faith alone.

    Do you agree with that?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lon
    replied
    Originally posted by steko View Post
    Put me down for that one!
    Last activity in 2016, what has he been up to? Anyone know?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by heir View Post
    Yes The gospel that he preached "unto" the Galatians as the power of God was the gospel of Christ, yes. Paul's gospel (Galatians 1:3-5 KJV). If anyone including Paul would have preached any other gospel than that which he preached "unto" the Galatians (as the power of God), let them be accursed. And that is just what was happening. The Galatians were being constrained to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses (Acts 15:5 KJV, Galatians 5:1-3 KJV) which once Paul preached "unto" the Galatians the gospel of Christ which they received the Spirit by the hearing of faith Galatians 3:2 KJV), was a perversion of the gospel of Christ (Galatians 1:7 KJV). None of that negates the fact that Paul preached the gospel of God/the WHO of Jesus Christ before he got to his saving gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV-the gospel of Christ, the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first and also to the Greek Romans 1:16-17 KJV). After all, he was at that time separated unto the gospel of God (Romans 1:1 KJV).

    And please forgive my interruption into your conversation. I have to admit, I don't know what you and Jerry are talking about. I'm not much into reading Jerry as he wrongly divides. I was only responding directly to your statement to address that Paul indeed preached more than one gospel: the gospel of God, the gospel of Christ, the gospel of the grace of God. It can be of help to recognize differences in what Paul preached and to whom and also how it differed from the 12 to Israel. I know that it has been of great help to me as I try to 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV.
    I now understand what you are talking about.

    Leave a comment:

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