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  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by Lon View Post
    Difference: Prior Crucifixion, the Spirit came upon men, post, the Spirit now indwells man. Hebrews 8:6-13

    Just wondering how this applies, which crosses both needs of Israel and gentiles, as well as (v13) what passed away. Thanks.
    In all ages, even prior to the Cross, believers were saved when they are quickened by the spirit. When the Lord Jesus walked the earth He said, "the words that I speak to you, they are spirit and they are life" (Jn.6:63).



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  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

    Paul turned from preaching to the Jews to preach to the gentiles.
    He began preaching to the Gentiles at Acts 13:46-48 but he continued to preach in the synagogues of the Jews (Acts 17:1-3).

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  • Lon
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The Jews were being saved before Paul was even converted. Here is what the Lord Jesus told them when He walked the earth:

    "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).
    Difference: Prior Crucifixion, the Spirit came upon men, post, the Spirit now indwells man. Hebrews 8:6-13

    Just wondering how this applies, which crosses both needs of Israel and gentiles, as well as (v13) what passed away. Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    Do you deny that Paul preached to the Jews as well as to the Gentiles? Read Acts 17:1-3.

    The gospel he preached to the Jews he called the "kingdom of God" (Acts 20:25) and that was the exact same gospel which the Twelve preached to the Jews at Luke 9:2,6.
    Paul turned from preaching to the Jews to preach to the gentiles.

    ​​​​​​ Acts 13:46 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.

    The Gospel Paul preached was not the same as that of the Twelve.

    Paul preached:
    1 Corinthians 15:1-4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    15 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast [a]the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

    3 For I delivered to you [b]as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

    The Twelve preached:

    ​​​​​​Acts 2:38 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

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  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

    Isn't Paul the apostle to the Gentiles. Read Galatians 2:7 my friend. That which Paul preached is is different from what Peter preached and is found in Romans through Philemon.
    Do you deny that Paul preached to the Jews as well as to the Gentiles? Read Acts 17:1-3.

    The gospel he preached to the Jews he called the "kingdom of God" (Acts 20:25) and that was the exact same gospel which the Twelve preached to the Jews at Luke 9:2,6.

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  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    Paul preached two different gospels. One to the Jews and another to the Gentiles. The one to the Jews was the good news according to what the OT Scriptures promised (Romans 1:1-2). That was the same gospel which Peter preached to the Jews. That gospel proclaimed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and the Jews who believed that gospel were born of God and saved when they believed (1 Jn.5:1-5).

    The gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles is described as "the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery" (Ro.16:25).
    That gospel declares that the Lord Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead and those who believe that gospel are saved.
    Isn't Paul the apostle to the Gentiles. Read Galatians 2:7 my friend. That which Paul preached is is different from what Peter preached and is found in Romans through Philemon.

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  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

    You don't have anything to say about two gospels, one to Peter and one to Paul?
    Paul preached two different gospels. One to the Jews and another to the Gentiles. The one to the Jews was the good news according to what the OT Scriptures promised (Romans 1:1-2). That was the same gospel which Peter preached to the Jews. That gospel proclaimed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and the Jews who believed that gospel were born of God and saved when they believed (1 Jn.5:1-5).

    The gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles is described as "the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery" (Ro.16:25).
    That gospel declares that the Lord Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead and those who believe that gospel are saved.

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  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    So?
    You don't have anything to say about two gospels, one to Peter and one to Paul?

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  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Galatians 2:6-9 English Standard Version (ESV)

    6 And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
    So?

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  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Galatians 2:6-9 English Standard Version (ESV)

    6 And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

    I get my ideas from Romans through Philemon. Where do you get yours? Yes, I know that Jews who believe in Jesus are saved
    But you said the following:

    If they believed in Paul's gospel.
    The Jews were being saved before Paul was even converted. Here is what the Lord Jesus told them when He walked the earth:

    "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).

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  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by heir View Post
    Peter was not saved as we are having now received the atonement, but looks forward to salvation at the second coming of Christ (Acts 3:19-21 KJV, 1 Peter 1:7-13 KJV).
    How could you possibly be so confused?

    Here are the Lord Jesus' own words spoken to the Jews who lived under the law:

    "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).


    The Lord Jesus told these Jews that those who believe have "eternal life," not will have eternal life.

    Peter also said the following:

    "God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:8-11).

    According to you Peter wasn't yet saved!

    It is obvious that you either don't believe what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews at John 6:47 or you are not even aware that He told the Jews that!

    I would recommend that you read the Bible before you tell others on this forum things which are not true! A little Bible study goes a long way!

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  • heir
    replied
    Originally posted by lifeisgood View Post
    Sometimes I do not understand why we say 'Paul's gospel'. Was Peter, etc. saved under Paul's Gospel? or do we consider that Peter. etc. was not saved BEFORE Paul came into the scene? There is no such thing as Paul's Gospel. It is the same problem I have when people tell me that it is the Revelation of John. There is no such thing as the revelation of John in the book of Revelation.
    Paul called it his gospel in Romans 2:16 KJV, Romans 16:25 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:8 KJV why shouldn't we? Paul was given the dispensation of the gospel (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV) having received his gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) by direct revelation of the risen Lord Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11-12 KJV).

    That which Peter preached was that which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began (Acts 3:21 KJV) while Paul's gospel was kept secret since the world began (Romans 16:25-26 KJV) and Paul tells us why (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV). Peter was not saved as we are having now received the atonement, but looks forward to salvation at the second coming of Christ (Acts 3:19-21 KJV, 1 Peter 1:7-13 KJV).

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  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    Where do you get your strange ideas, Bright Raven? Do you not even understand that the Jews who believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, were "born of God" when theybelieved that truth (1 Jn.5:1-5; Jn.20:30-31)?

    Are you willing to argue that even though they were born of God that they weren't saved?
    I get my ideas from Romans through Philemon. Where do you get yours? Yes, I know that Jews who believe in Jesus are saved

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  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

    If they believed in Paul's gospel.
    Where do you get your strange ideas, Bright Raven? Do you not even understand that the Jews who believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, were "born of God" when theybelieved that truth (1 Jn.5:1-5; Jn.20:30-31)?

    Are you willing to argue that even though they were born of God that they weren't saved?

    Leave a comment:

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