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  • #76
    what would you consider to be the best Presuppositional position debate to watch, read, or listen to in order to compare the two?
    Last edited by cheeezywheeezy; June 23rd, 2003, 09:38 PM.

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    • #77
      I always like the Greg Bahnsen vs. Gordon Stein debate.
      http://www.u-turn.net/3-2/exist.html

      I don't know where you could get the debate on audio, I'll look for it.
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      • #78
        http://www.grandstrandredeemer.org/misc.html

        if you go here, about 3/4 of the way down the page there is the bahnsen vs stein debate on real player. it's advertised in really small letters, so you may have to look hard for it.
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        • #79
          Originally posted by cheeezywheeezy
          what would you consider to be the best Presuppositional position debate to watch, read, or listen to in order to compare the two?
          Books:

          Bahnsen, Greg L. Always Ready: Directions for Defending the Faith. American Vision and Covenant Media Foundation, 1996.

          ______. Van Til's Apologetic: Readings & Analysis. P&R Publishing, 1998.

          Frame, John M. Apologetics to the Glory of God: An Introduction. P&R Publishing, 1994.

          ______ Cornelius Van Til: An Analysis of His Thought. P&R Publishing, 1995.

          Pratt, Richard L., Jr. Every Thought Captive: A Study Manual for the Defense of Christian Truth. Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1979.

          Van Til, Cornelius. The Defense of the Faith. Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1955.

          Audio debates:

          The Great Debate: Does God Exist?
          Writeup from CMF website: "This is the famous formal debate between Dr. Bahnsen and atheist promoter Dr. Gordon Stein held at the university of California (Irvine) in 1985. Hear how hard it is to deny God's existence and how intellectually rigorous the Christian position actually is."
          http://www.cmfnow.com/product.asp?0=241&1=316&3=9530

          Does God Exist?: A Debate Between Greg Bahnsen and Edward Tabash
          Writeup from CMF website: "This formal debate between Dr. Bahnsen and atheist lawyer (former ACLU) Edward Tabash at the University of California (Davis), is a great follow-up to the Bahnsen/Stein debate. Witness again how an atheist fails to wrestle with fundamental philosophical issues."
          http://www.cmfnow.com/product.asp?0=241&1=316&3=9532

          Jim

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          • #80
            Originally posted by NATEDOG
            I always like the Greg Bahnsen vs. Gordon Stein debate.
            http://www.u-turn.net/3-2/exist.html

            I don't know where you could get the debate on audio, I'll look for it.
            I've heard that one. He cleans that guy's clock, if you ask me.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by NATEDOG
              http://www.grandstrandredeemer.org/misc.html

              if you go here, about 3/4 of the way down the page there is the bahnsen vs stein debate on real player. it's advertised in really small letters, so you may have to look hard for it.
              You can get it here too. Scroll down the page a little ways, and it's the third link under the Dr. Greg Bahnsen heading.

              http://www.monergism.com/thethreshol...ologetics.html

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              • #82
                Who cleans who's clock?
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                • #83
                  Originally posted by NATEDOG
                  Who cleans who's clock?
                  Bahnsen cleans Stein's.

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                  • #84
                    gooooooood :ahso:
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                    • #85
                      Re: Welcome back ...

                      Originally posted by Hilston
                      Novice,

                      Welcome back. There are some questions that have been awaiting your return:
                      Oh well then, by all means!

                      Jims states:
                      Where?
                      Here...
                      Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,....Romans 2:1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

                      Jim states:
                      The context is not being ashamed of the gospel. Paul goes on to describe those who oppose the truth, giving us a clear understanding of what makes their professed atheism tick. Do you agree with the Bible that says Zakath has already had sufficient proof of God's existence?
                      Yes.

                      Do you agree that Zakath THINKS he has a defense or an excuse?

                      Jim states:
                      Does "not being ashamed of the gospel" have anything to do with a Christian here on earth, Novice?

                      Jim
                      Ya know I can honestly say I have no idea as to what sort of a point your making.

                      But then again maybe that is a good thing. :bannana:
                      Oh, wise guy eh?

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                      • #86
                        Re: A real possibilty?

                        Originally posted by Hilston
                        cheeezywheeezy, here's a newflash for you: Bob Enyart is not the Messiah and Bob Enyart did not save Knight.
                        Jim, do you really think that was the point being made?
                        Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
                        TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

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                        • #87
                          Re: You can always tell ...

                          Originally posted by Hilston
                          In fact, the things that I like about Bob Enyart are the very reason that I lament the unbiblical argumentation he uses. If he were to use the biblical apologetic method, he would be devastating.
                          Ya mean like if Bob Enyart used the MATRIX or Blade Runner as the basis for his arguments?

                          Sorry Hilston, I couldn't resist.

                          Oh, wise guy eh?

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                          • #88
                            I don't know dude, I'm havin a hard time taking Larry here seriously.
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                            • #89
                              Novice,
                              I'd just ask you to understand it before you knock it.
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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Knight
                                Praise the Lord Bob evangelizes his way and not NATEDOG's and Jim's!

                                I was an atheist just like Zakath! The first step in me becomming a Christian was watching Bob destroy an atheistic evolutionist on his TV show one night using the exact same arguments he is using in the BR VII.

                                Now me, my wife and all of our 5 children, my sister her husband all of their children (some are grown up) and even my father will be with the Lord in heaven! Thank you Bob!
                                Wow! That is one awesome testimony Knight.

                                Isn't it amazing how a seed planted can so dramatically affect countless lives? How many more will come to Christ as a result of your labor and that of your family? Thanks for sharing!

                                For God's glory.
                                That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.
                                Philippians 2:15

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