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  • Jim, in case you wondered, here is where our discussion last ended. This was my last response to you.

    Post 484

    http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulle...284#post302284

    Your last response to me was

    Post 451

    http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulle...112#post300112

    and since then I also posted

    http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulle...076#post305076

    Oh, and did I mention Ps 14.1 yet?
    Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by 1Way
      Zakath – That’s right Zak, you have dug yourself a hole, but I think you did so quite on purpose. But I don’t have to make you and your name out to be anything, you have made it yourself. Please, you ask me to please give you a brake, please back at yourself, because what happened (your unexpected, unwarranted disappearance) really did happen.

      (Foregive me if you have worked to clear up your disappearance act, but from recent communications with the forum webmaster (yesterday), you have not done so.)

      I’m sure that Benedict Arnold does not like his reputation preceding him, but facts are facts, you abandoned your own cause right in the heat of the battle and perhaps worse, you did so without even communicating why, you just ran away. We theists honor truth in reality, so your cowardice is only evident, and your apparent unconcern after the fact only supports the reality of your fear and personal lack of integrity towards the issue you ran away from.

      But the future is open, you can change your ways, and I hope you do.
      I'm always so touched by those who claim to honor truth without seeming to listen to it when it's communicated. I found the comparison with Benedict Arnold particularly endearing...

      You seem to have overlooked it, but, on August 11th I posted my reasons for missing my ninth post of the debate -- illness and family issues. To be blunt, I spent time in the hospital. (See post) Unfortunately for you, I did not have either the health or availability of web access from my hospital bed to comment on Enyart's drivel. After I got out of the hospital, I informed Knight of that fact, whether he chooses to release the information is his business. It happens that my email address is part of my profile and I find it pathetic that more atheists contacted me to inquire about my health than did religionists. Not even my opponent, St. Bob the Broadcaster, had the courtesy to make inquiry via email.

      The tone of you post comes across as disappointed; but you should realize that, unlike Enyart, I do not make my living from arguing about religious beliefs. I think the rapidity with which Enyart self-published the debate (on sale at his website for a mere $19.95 plus shipping and handling), without even the common courtesy of allowing the other major party involved (me) to review the text prior to publication, demonstrates where his head was in the matter.

      For me, debating on boards like this was just a pastime. For him, debating here appears to be merely another way to make money off of religion.

      Based on posts like yours, I find the current attitude on the board generally inhospitable, to put it mildly, and will not be posting much here in the future.

      (edited to add the link to Enyart's website) - Z
      Last edited by Zakath; September 8, 2003, 06:45 AM.

      Comment


      • Good morning, Zakath.

        I'm sorry to hear you were ill, but I'm sure you'll understand that coming from a fellow atheist. Thank you for your participation in BR VII, as far as you were able to take it. I know your posts represented a good deal of time and effort and want you to know they were appreciated, though perhaps not by Pastor Bob. I hope you've had a chance to check out the post-game show. It seems the good reverend made me the topic of his latest broadcast, so I guess we did okay.
        there is no taoist

        Comment


        • Thank you and you're very welcome.

          You have my congratulations as well, Taoist!

          I think that an individual's beleifs are more accurately illustrated by assessing his enemies than his friends. If Enyart dislikes your position, that's a plus for you, as far as I'm concerned. Keep up the good work.

          Comment


          • I've a long way to go to reach your level of infamy. In addition to the now ubiquitous "pulled a Zakath," did you know they've named a TOL smiley after you as well?

            Zakath =

            Maybe if Bob debates me one on one, I'll be similarly honored. After listening to his broadcast, I'm thinking about inviting him to debate the proper way to pronounce "taoist." Egads. Maybe, just maybe, given ten posts, I could get him to actually address the issue. But his latest show doesn't give me much reason for high expectations.

            taoist;
            Here's Bob's seven characteristics of God. Let's discuss the first two.

            Broadcaster Bob;
            Let's discuss the other five left out by that blithering idiot.

            taoist;
            Oi vey! Maybe it shudda been Jewish I was. Then maybe all the other questions I didn't ask he'd've answered. Such a bargain!
            Last edited by taoist; September 8, 2003, 07:38 AM.
            there is no taoist

            Comment


            • Originally posted by taoist
              Maybe if Bob debates me one on one, I'll be similarly honored. After listening to his broadcast, I'm thinking about inviting him to debate the proper way to pronounce "taoist." Egads. Maybe, just maybe, given ten posts, I could get him to actually address the issue. But his latest show doesn't give me much reason for high expectations.
              Why wait? Call tonight 1-800-8Enyart
              Help for

              "...the Reformation broke with Rome but not Greece..." - Bob Enyart

              Comment


              • Thanks, Ninevah, but I don't do talk shows. I'm uncomfortable speaking to someone I can't see and haven't actually met. But I'll make you a deal, the next time I'm in Denver visiting my little sis, I'll look him up.
                there is no taoist

                Comment


                • Hello Zakath and Taoist,

                  Zakath

                  Sorry to hear you were ill and in hospital. I hope you are better now.

                  What do you think of our joint effort in the post game show?

                  Taoist

                  And why has this Bob E person, that calls Taoist a "blitherering idiot" in his own show, did not make a post on here in time?

                  Is it perhaps because this religious fanatic can not proof that his deity has any more existence as, let's say, Donald Duck?

                  Comment


                  • Have you ever noticed how religion almost always = MONEY ! $$$$$ !

                    I have NEVER seen an atheist or even Evolutionist asking for money or trying to sell something.

                    Check out any site you like.. EVERY religious site offers to sell something or asks for money.

                    NO atheist site does.

                    Doesn’t this just give a little clue that the atheist message is not tainted by the greedy desire for money. What is even more amazing is that it is in direct opposition to the Christian ideal.. remember Jesus in the Temple with the money lenders and vendors ???

                    Perhaps the atheists are far more “Christian” with their “free” offerings than those greedy religionists !

                    Comment


                    • Hey Aussie!

                      I beg to differ... just go to infidelguy.com - Go a third of the way down the page, look on the left side. They give you two sites that you can donate through, stormpay and paypal! Whoops. Oh, and then have you ever noticed that in order to do anything you need money? Apparently not. Maybe it's true that some churches have illegal drug runs to raise money but most have to rely on private donors. You ever think about that??

                      Oh, and I found a couple church sites that don't ask for money (www.nefc.net and www.apc-online.org). So that didn't work either.

                      One last thing, don't start quoting the Bible when you have no idea what's going on. It had nothing to do with the money that was being given to the temple (see Mark 12:41-44) as to why Jesus cleared it, it was the fact that they were mocking the sacrificial system (the very thing Jesus came to fulfill) by selling animals for the sacrifice while ripping people off and being "robbers." It had nothing to do with giving money to the Church or to projects it undertakes.
                      1 Timothy 2:4
                      [God our Savior] wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth.

                      Comment


                      • Potato,

                        You have a go at me for misquoting scripture when I didn’t even quote it.

                        The you go and misquote it.

                        Mark 12 41-44 is explaining why the old lady who gives so little actually give more than the rich men who give a lot but can afford more.

                        The basic thrust of Jesus rant in the Temple was a rant against the Romans and Roman ways of commerce that had infiltrated the Temple. “Render under Caesar.. remeber !

                        You aren’t going to convince anyone that ministries like Enyarts and most Fundamental Churches are just money grubbing enterprises that would have sickened Jesus !

                        Comment


                        • Aussie-

                          You're right, you didn't quote the story. My fault. But that wasn't my point (and by the way I didn't quote it either). The point of the woman story was that Jesus didn't condemn giving money to the temple (or church or whatever) but rather he approved it when it came from pure motives. And Jesus driving people out of the temple may have indirectly resulted from the Roman commercialism but it was more directly because of the undermining of the sacrificial system and the importance of the role of the temple (the place where God dwells).

                          And I never tried to convince anyone of the purity of those ministries. I am not gonna make a judgement on enyart's ministries or anything else, but like you (and Christ too I'm sure) I am disgusted by the greed of many in the church. But keep in mind, we wouldn't be Christians if we were perfect. It's not some holiness club, we are Christians precisely because we are aware of how imperfect we are. No, that doesn't mean they (or I) have an excuse to do whatever we want. But it is the recognition that we cannot meet God's standard on our own and that we need a savior. That is why we belong to Christ. After all, the Protestant Reformation began partially out of the greed of the Catholic Church in selling indulgences ("when a coin in the coffer rings, a soul from purgatory springs" -Johann Tetzel). Things like this sicken me. I despise to see the name of my Lord used as a business advertisement. Another thing to remember is that oftentimes what is called the Christian church is not at all Christian, it is just another political organization identifying themselves by that label in order to gain power.

                          Showing you those sites was not to say that you have no point or that those organizations are not corrupt, it was to simply show the fallacy of your universal assumptions.

                          Don't dismiss Christ because of the actions of those who claim to be his followers. Look at the first hand accounts of him and his resurrection. If the resurrection happened all of existence hangs around it, if not then it means nothing and we (Christians) are all wasting our lives (as you think probably). But the evidence is there, ask "God" to show you. Don't close your mind to it. Give Him a chance. If you do, you'll be amazed.
                          1 Timothy 2:4
                          [God our Savior] wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth.

                          Comment


                          • Potato,

                            It was pretty general rant.. its just I generally see a lot more greed, deception and lies in Gods name than I ever see from those that do not believe in a God !

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
                              I have NEVER seen an atheist or even Evolutionist asking for money or trying to sell something.
                              Evolution is paid for by taxes. What Mr. Enyart sells is a product for a price. Unlike the fed school, in real life, there is no free lunch.

                              But speaking of godless institutions and funding: The UN is paid for by dues. Plannedbarrenhood gets donations. How do animal rights and gun control organizations get their money? Donations. With these folks you don't get much of a return other than more oppressive legislation.
                              Help for

                              "...the Reformation broke with Rome but not Greece..." - Bob Enyart

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Nineveh
                                Evolution is paid for by taxes.
                                Gee, I wonder how we managed to evolve before the tax system was in place?

                                What Mr. Enyart sells is a product for a price.
                                Yes. Of course, it's still very debatable whether or not his product is worth what he's charging.

                                Comment

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